"the Mooch"

[stroker crazy]

Perhaps you meant Popper rather than Hegel.

Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies:

"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Otherwise, no problem!

Crazy

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

Re: "the Mooch"

Okay, but that doesn't really answer the question. Even if they were throwing punches, where is the evidence that they are racist, of the left, and Soros' own thugs were there and acting racist. Punches alone don't make them employed by Soros, racist, or of the left. Maybe they are just angry because a bunch of rich white privileged kids were able to afford the day off to protest the removal of some transparently racist statues. At best you could say that the proposed charges could be considered hard to prove, but in reality they are based on nonsense. Sure, there are assholes in every group. Hell, a white nationalist killed a woman, but instead of apologizing and pointing out actions of terror where they are due (good job Donnie) we are trying to prove that the other side didn't have permits and make the other side out to be equally as bad. It's a moral false equivalence really. The majority are saying that the white nationalists spew hate, obviously true. Those defending the white nationalists are attempting to say that the other side is just as bad. That again is a logical fallacy. Address the criticism of the white nationalists, one of which murdered a person at that very rally, the rest of them openly fight for the extermination of those who aren't white Christians. You'd have to a fucking moron to even attempt to point the finger elsewhere. The best part is that historically speaking those statues were put in place during the same time that Jim Crowe and other white nationalist based laws that obviously discriminate were drafted and adopted. So let's place some obviously discriminatory laws in place and to really drive the point home we will also drop some historical defenders of slavery into town squares the nation over. Never mind that those statues depict people who literally attempted to defend slavery by risking their own lives in war, no these statues aren't racist, not at all.

Did you spend all morning writing that drivel?

Are you gonna blow up Mount Rushmore too?

Taking these monuments down is completely idiotic.


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[J-Rod10]

That is a curious question.

Aside from all the shit that happened in the last week or two, they have been going after monuments for a solid year.

49% of the Constitutional Convention were slave owners, including some of the most prominent, including the guy who wrote the Declaration, and our first president, along with the president during the Civil War. Do we go after their monuments next? Lincoln, after all didn't free all slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation, only those in states the Union was fighting.

I'm not here to argue who fought for what, or what monuments are ok, and what are not. Just a curious question as to what comes next, after they tackle all the Confederate monuments.

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

Re: "the Mooch"

Seriously? I hate to say it, but the time is fucking now more than ever. You may not be self-aware or realize this, but stupid falls out of your mouth every time you open it, and it's apparent to everyone else. I've avoided insulting you for ages while you throw lobs of shit towards me repeatedly, but sorry guy: you're fucked.

The false equivalence that savOr points out is absolutely correct. A crowd of torch-bearing neo-nazis shouting "Jews will not replace us," carrying swastikas and other symbols of white supremacy, raising their arms in sieg heil salutes -- these are people that the president said had some good people among them. And these are the people that are calling for the eradication of people of color, Jews, Muslims, etc. There aren't two sides to this argument, and trying to blame the left for the violence is about as idiotic as it gets -- and is essentially arguing the white supremacists' side. Nazis shouldn't be protected -- look up Hegel's paradox of tolerance for some guidance here. And think about America's past.

I didn't lose my job because I'm not a mouth breathing Nazi who attended a rally to preach hate toward minorities -- not sure how you made that leap, sweetums, but it's bizarre.

"The whole show" was actually planned by the right, and the leftists who came out to protest did so in reaction to the Nazi right. You claim the evidence is so clear that CNN can't refute it? OK, let's have it. Post it here. Not evidence that the antifas attacked the Nazis, but that the whole thing was planned by the left. And let's remember that in the end, an anti-racist protestor was killed by a racist protestor.

Protest groups on both sides of racism -- you mean the racists and those who condemn racism? You mean, like the civil rights movement in the 1960s? -- are weak minded trash? Really? We should stand idly by while the white supremacists gain momentum?

Remember when you used to say derogatory stuff about Mexicans, African-Americans, Muslims and other minorities here with your buddy who got banned because he just couldn't shut up about it?

The Trump supporting fringe is declining in numbers as people are abhorred by what this man has done and continues to do, but no doubt there will be people -- some misinformed, some malicious, some incredibly naïve or stupid -- who continue to defend him or what they think he stands for. This is seriously a shitty and fucked up time in the US.

Love you toots, really I do, and let me know if you need help with any of the big words as you've complained you can't understand them in the past. XOXO.

WoW! You spun that just like a full blown CNN news story.

You seem to think I care what you think Chicken... I don't, your just noise imo.


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[irk miller]

The vast majority of Confederate memorials were installed in the 20th century. Most were funded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy and they were clearly part of the UDC's promotion of the Lost Cause. Most memorials were installed alongside Jim Crow laws and a bunch were installed during the Civil Rights Movement. If we're being honest, it's pretty clear they represented a defiance by southern states. To suggest that Washington or Jefferson memorials are next is just being alarmist. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[sav0r]

Re: "the Mooch"

Did you spend all morning writing that drivel?

Are you gonna blow up Mount Rushmore too?

Taking these monuments down is completely idiotic.


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No, you're a doo-doo head!

 

[J-Rod10]

The vast majority of Confederate memorials were installed in the 20th century. Most were funded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy and they were clearly part of the UDC's promotion of the Lost Cause. Most memorials were installed alongside Jim Crow laws and a bunch were installed during the Civil Rights Movement. If we're being honest, it's pretty clear they represented a defiance by southern states. To suggest that Washington or Jefferson memorials are next is just being alarmist. One has nothing to do with the other.

Normally, I would agree. However, the Lincoln Memorial was vandalised last night. Shit is all over Facebook with people talking about taking them down, "we shouldn't memorialize slave owners," etc.

Like I said, not arguing one way or the other. Just a curious question.

 

[irk miller]

I missed that story about Lincoln Memorial. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[stroker crazy]

Lincoln Memorial was vandalised last night.

A moron with a spraycan; stupidity isn't limited to any one political outlook.

However this doesn't invalidate the reasoning behind the removal of Lost Cause statuary.

Crazy

 

[teazer]

The issue of Confederate statues is not that the people that are memorialized don't have historical significance and not that they were slave owners. The real issue is that the statues were raised last time White Supremacists insisted on taking back the south and tried to rewrite history - predominantly in the Jim Crow era.

It was not because they were brave or great generals, but because they represented the south and all that it stood for and that was mainly about whites being "true americans". The sad thing is that the south has a valid, if incomplete historical perspective and it is overshadowed by the neo nazi and other bozos who seem to feel that Chump has legitimized their anger.

Let's not forget that the "heroes of the south" were as anti American as it's possible to be. Their intention was to leave the US so that they could continue to build an economy on the backs of non white slaves. Given that most of the world had already stopped slavery before the Civil War or was starting to outlaw it.

But back to the modern day. Those statues and the people they represent are or were historical figures and should be in a suitable location and not in front of Government buildings. And neo Nazis have zero place in any modern country and have zero right to try to claim those historical figures as representing their twisted thoughts.

 

[clem]

Re: "the Mooch"

Neo Nazi's are a slap in the face to all of our elders that fought and died in WWII. Period.
There is still slavery that happens in this country today and no one reports on it. Not a good enough story to get votes with I guess. Politicians aim to keep the country divided, it benefits them and only them. Pick anyone you wish to be president and the current situation in this country stays them same. Stamp it.

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[Tune-A-Fish]

Re: "the Mooch"

No, you're a doo-doo head!

Now that I agree whole heartedly with sir


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[Tune-A-Fish]

Re: "the Mooch"

A moron with a spraycan; stupidity isn't limited to any one political outlook.

However this doesn't invalidate the reasoning behind the removal of Lost Cause statuary.

Crazy

Wonder how a popular vote would turn out if the entire US was poled


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[sav0r]

Doo-doo head, you go to the polls, you take a poll, you are polling the people, and we were polled in 2016. Getting poled is entirely different. Maybe you should waste more of your morning on your posts.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poled

 

[carnivorous chicken]

Perhaps you meant Popper rather than Hegel.

Crazy

Right you are... got my Germans mixed up with my Austrians and my centuries pretty far off, but thanks!

 

[carnivorous chicken]

Re: "the Mooch"

WoW! You spun that just like a full blown CNN news story.

You seem to think I care what you think Chicken... I don't, your just noise imo.

Love you boo, and you're cute when you're aloof!

But come on, you've got this proof that the left organized the whole thing in Virginia -- you said so yourself! Show us, there are quite a few people interested in seeing that. Otherwise most people will probably simply continue to think that you are one of those people we all read about -- submerged in an echo chamber of sources from the right that rely on opinion not fact, blindly clinging to a president who has bumbled his way through his first several months and recently given a louder voice to his unsuppressed racism.

Let's hear some more how bad Hillary is, and how divisive Obama was.

 

[carnivorous chicken]

That is a curious question.

Aside from all the shit that happened in the last week or two, they have been going after monuments for a solid year.

49% of the Constitutional Convention were slave owners, including some of the most prominent, including the guy who wrote the Declaration, and our first president, along with the president during the Civil War. Do we go after their monuments next? Lincoln, after all didn't free all slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation, only those in states the Union was fighting.

I'm not here to argue who fought for what, or what monuments are ok, and what are not. Just a curious question as to what comes next, after they tackle all the Confederate monuments.

I understand people are wondering "Where will it stop" but there are some pretty basic differences between paying homage to people such as George Washington and Robert E. Lee, despite what Trump wants people to think. Washington and Jefferson were flawed people, no doubt about that, including owning slaves. But they are celebrated for leading the United States to independence. Yes, slavery is part of that story, but that's not their main story. Robert E. Lee is celebrated solely (or almost entirely) for leading a pro-slavery revolt against the central government of the United States. Despite what some people may want to argue -- and I'd be happy to engage on this topic -- the Civil War was fought over slavery. Robert E. Lee is celebrated because he wanted to separate from the US and create a nation based on the enslavement of others. He and his side lost, the Union won, and yet there is a debate over whether these traitors should be celebrated in public places and in front of government buildings?

Others (Teazer) have articulated it well here -- in a museum? Sure. People can choose not to visit a museum.

Perhaps most strikingly is that Robert E. Lee was wise enough to oppose monuments to the Confederacy at the end of the Civil War. He wisely saw them as divisive at a time when the South had to accept defeat and acknowledge the end of slavery. And as Irk pointed out -- these monuments were put up long after the Civil War, with dubious motives.

And I'll reiterate my previous comment about the divisiveness of Trump, and add this: neo-nazis and white supremacists are arguing that these statues be maintained, and killing people in the process.

 

[carnivorous chicken]

And there goes Bannon.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/us/politics/steve-bannon-trump-white-house.html?_r=0

Anybody know of an administration that fired and replaced people as quickly as this? With this number of resignations and people refusing to join? With this many positions unfilled? Just curious.

 

[J-Rod10]

Has anyone here ever partaken in one of these rallies? I'm considering it. On the anti-Nazi side of course.

Group of former ball players organizing it. We're in touch with ESPN and ABC. We spent months and months on the road with each other, white guys, black guys, Hispanic guys, Latin guys, European guys, etc. Color never mattered to us. It's a brotherhood. Some of my favorite memories are with guys who didn't speak a lick of English. Seemingly, it could be an interesting event.

 

[sav0r]

And there goes Bannon.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/us/politics/steve-bannon-trump-white-house.html?_r=0

Anybody know of an administration that fired and replaced people as quickly as this? With this number of resignations and people refusing to join? With this many positions unfilled? Just curious.

Finally, some winning!