1974 CL360 & KZ400
- Thread starter Zoltan
- Start date
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
floats dont really hang down...they "float" UP, resting atop the fuel in the bowl. As fuel level in the bowl rises the floating "float" pushes the Float needle up closing off the flow of fuel into the bowl. As fuel is consumed by the engine, the level in the bowl drops. Thus dropping the float and pulling the needle down out of the seat...this is how gas gets into the bowl.
Float adjustment page 67. It dont get much easier...PJs tip "to rotate the carbs a bit, close the valves but dont compress the spring under the load of the floats"
and there is only one throttle stop screw adjuster.
sounds like you been mistakingly messing w air/fuel mix needles. Even though they do, instruct, you employ "idle" rpm for properly dialed tuning, they have nothing to do w "throttle stop screw (idle speed) adjustment". engine rpm is simply the easiest way to check for most effective/ efficient mix ratio.
But long before you mess w mix needles, you need to check em for sync. pg 21
so check and set floats
turn mix needles out, 1.5 turns
synchronize
then you can mess w mix needles
Zoltan said:
floats dont really hang down...they "float" UP, resting atop the fuel in the bowl. As fuel level in the bowl rises the floating "float" pushes the Float needle up closing off the flow of fuel into the bowl. As fuel is consumed by the engine, the level in the bowl drops. Thus dropping the float and pulling the needle down out of the seat...this is how gas gets into the bowl.
Float adjustment page 67. It dont get much easier...PJs tip "to rotate the carbs a bit, close the valves but dont compress the spring under the load of the floats"
and there is only one throttle stop screw adjuster.
sounds like you been mistakingly messing w air/fuel mix needles. Even though they do, instruct, you employ "idle" rpm for properly dialed tuning, they have nothing to do w "throttle stop screw (idle speed) adjustment". engine rpm is simply the easiest way to check for most effective/ efficient mix ratio.
But long before you mess w mix needles, you need to check em for sync. pg 21
so check and set floats
turn mix needles out, 1.5 turns
synchronize
then you can mess w mix needles
Zoltan
Brooklyn
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
thanks for the replies, well I got the float heights perfect via the manual. When I was getting this thing started with starter fluid, it would run for a little and die off, removing the choke also would shoot the rpms up crazy high. Also adjusted cam chain. I found out not enough gas was getting to the carbs from old in-line filters. Replaced them and got the bike to run at inconsistent idles and removing the choke still shoots the rpm prolly in the 5000 range, however otherwise the bike does stay running and I was able to ride a bit on it. I have messed around with the throttle idle screw, air mix screws, none have an effect on the idle. What could be causing this high rpm when removing the choke lever?
thanks for the replies, well I got the float heights perfect via the manual. When I was getting this thing started with starter fluid, it would run for a little and die off, removing the choke also would shoot the rpms up crazy high. Also adjusted cam chain. I found out not enough gas was getting to the carbs from old in-line filters. Replaced them and got the bike to run at inconsistent idles and removing the choke still shoots the rpm prolly in the 5000 range, however otherwise the bike does stay running and I was able to ride a bit on it. I have messed around with the throttle idle screw, air mix screws, none have an effect on the idle. What could be causing this high rpm when removing the choke lever?
Zoltan
Brooklyn
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
yeah I probably meant air mix screws, I have read people use the term idle screws etc. for when talking about air mix screws. But my throttle idle screw is good and there and in the past it has had an effect on the idle efficiently, however I think since there is something going on with too much air flow (like I was saying removing the choke increases the idle like crazy) it has rly zero effect on the idle since theres an issue somewhere.
crazypj said:There is only 1 idle screw for both carbs.
It may be seized up or cable broken?
I made a new idle screw for someone when cable was either missing or broken, I forget which
yeah I probably meant air mix screws, I have read people use the term idle screws etc. for when talking about air mix screws. But my throttle idle screw is good and there and in the past it has had an effect on the idle efficiently, however I think since there is something going on with too much air flow (like I was saying removing the choke increases the idle like crazy) it has rly zero effect on the idle since theres an issue somewhere.
B
boulevard
Guest
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
If it is an air leak at the boots it revs and is slow to return to idle. The fact that it is just reving to 5000 makes me think it's your idle. You can spray a little starting fluid on the boots if the idle shoots up then you know you have a leak at that location. That is assuming you could aquire a lower idle to begin with.
I have beat my head against the wall only to learn. Methodically follow the manual. Follow the order... Valves then timing then this then that all the way down to the carbs. Don't assume anything works. Take it from a guy who just rebuilt his engine 3 times the third was top and bottom end. Had a guy in my garage this weekend who wanted to "guess" on where to put his timing. He wouldn't listen to me. Haha guess he will have to learn the hard way like me
I have owned two 360s and as a newbie I hate the stock carbs. I'm sure it is my lack of tuning skill but the mikunis are so much easier which is exactly what I need. Hang in there! Looks like your making good progress. It will be worth it!
-boulevard
If it is an air leak at the boots it revs and is slow to return to idle. The fact that it is just reving to 5000 makes me think it's your idle. You can spray a little starting fluid on the boots if the idle shoots up then you know you have a leak at that location. That is assuming you could aquire a lower idle to begin with.
I have beat my head against the wall only to learn. Methodically follow the manual. Follow the order... Valves then timing then this then that all the way down to the carbs. Don't assume anything works. Take it from a guy who just rebuilt his engine 3 times the third was top and bottom end. Had a guy in my garage this weekend who wanted to "guess" on where to put his timing. He wouldn't listen to me. Haha guess he will have to learn the hard way like me
I have owned two 360s and as a newbie I hate the stock carbs. I'm sure it is my lack of tuning skill but the mikunis are so much easier which is exactly what I need. Hang in there! Looks like your making good progress. It will be worth it!
-boulevard
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
you need to pull the carbs and see if the "butterflies" on the manifold side are fully closed. I dont even know what Hondas term for the butterflies is. ? If its idling that high. She is flat out getting too much air through the carbs. If the butterflies were closed and you dont have leaks at the insulators. It can not idle that high. something is stuck...throttle cable, linkage between carbs, butterflies.
On the bright side...Im glad she is running better after timing. that knocks out one obstacle.
you need to pull the carbs and see if the "butterflies" on the manifold side are fully closed. I dont even know what Hondas term for the butterflies is. ? If its idling that high. She is flat out getting too much air through the carbs. If the butterflies were closed and you dont have leaks at the insulators. It can not idle that high. something is stuck...throttle cable, linkage between carbs, butterflies.
On the bright side...Im glad she is running better after timing. that knocks out one obstacle.
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
It is easy to over torque screws and warp the insulators. check for leaks tween them and the head. you can find this with starter fluid. or try pushing a thin feeler gauge twixed the head, gasket and insulators.
I found I did this on my bike.
They were new so I didnt want to buy another pair. I had to use my large flat file to make them flat again. Just new gaskets since the ends on the ones had been crushed. Filing sucked and it took a whole afternoon to correct them.
It is easy to over torque screws and warp the insulators. check for leaks tween them and the head. you can find this with starter fluid. or try pushing a thin feeler gauge twixed the head, gasket and insulators.
I found I did this on my bike.
They were new so I didnt want to buy another pair. I had to use my large flat file to make them flat again. Just new gaskets since the ends on the ones had been crushed. Filing sucked and it took a whole afternoon to correct them.
Zoltan
Brooklyn
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
Can't seem to find any air-leaks, manifolds seem all in great shape. Used carb cleaner while running and have sprayed the manifolds everywhere with no increase in rpms. Could such a high rpm be due to an extremely lean mixture? I am about to jet down to a 100 from a 110 and lower the floats, as well as check the valve clearances however I don't have the proper feeler gauges. I can't seem to not wonder if me cutting out part of the rubber on the cheap emgo pods that were originally blocking the the pilot passage ways at the entrance have to do with this air intake problem where removing the choke shoots the rpms up. If it is the case, the bike was running a ton better blocking this passage which doesn't really make sense at the end of the day.
Can't seem to find any air-leaks, manifolds seem all in great shape. Used carb cleaner while running and have sprayed the manifolds everywhere with no increase in rpms. Could such a high rpm be due to an extremely lean mixture? I am about to jet down to a 100 from a 110 and lower the floats, as well as check the valve clearances however I don't have the proper feeler gauges. I can't seem to not wonder if me cutting out part of the rubber on the cheap emgo pods that were originally blocking the the pilot passage ways at the entrance have to do with this air intake problem where removing the choke shoots the rpms up. If it is the case, the bike was running a ton better blocking this passage which doesn't really make sense at the end of the day.
B
boulevard
Guest
Re: Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
-boulevard
boom. That's getting to the point!Sonreir said:
-boulevard
B
boulevard
Guest
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
Have you tried letting it warm up before removing the choke. I start mine and leave the choke on until it sounds like it's about to die and then I remove the choke. Depending on how cold it is in Birmingham sometimes that can be over a minute. If i remove the choke immediately after starting my rpms raise as well.
-boulevard
Have you tried letting it warm up before removing the choke. I start mine and leave the choke on until it sounds like it's about to die and then I remove the choke. Depending on how cold it is in Birmingham sometimes that can be over a minute. If i remove the choke immediately after starting my rpms raise as well.
-boulevard
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
I was pretty surprised to see her pop up on Ebay. What did you find the issue was to get her running decent?
GOOD LUCK !
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Other-1974-honda-cl-360-motorcycle-brat-style-cafe-/221304598299?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3386c82f1b&item=221304598299&pt=US_motorcycles
I was pretty surprised to see her pop up on Ebay. What did you find the issue was to get her running decent?
GOOD LUCK !
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Other-1974-honda-cl-360-motorcycle-brat-style-cafe-/221304598299?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3386c82f1b&item=221304598299&pt=US_motorcycles
Zoltan
Brooklyn
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
There was a leak in the manifold I sealed up with some non-complete hardening gasket sealer, also lowered floats to 16 mm. Runs pretty good, wouldn't say perfect, but I'm over it, took it on its first long ride and im calling it a day.
Threw it up for a pretty ridiculous price, but I have been getting some offers on craigslist and a bunch of watchers on ebay, some ppl are diggin it.
Trying to get funds for the kz400 I can build over winter so this time I actually have a bike I can hop on come spring.
There was a leak in the manifold I sealed up with some non-complete hardening gasket sealer, also lowered floats to 16 mm. Runs pretty good, wouldn't say perfect, but I'm over it, took it on its first long ride and im calling it a day.
Threw it up for a pretty ridiculous price, but I have been getting some offers on craigslist and a bunch of watchers on ebay, some ppl are diggin it.
Trying to get funds for the kz400 I can build over winter so this time I actually have a bike I can hop on come spring.
Re: 1974 honda cl360 brat & kz400
Well i am sorry to see her go. Good Luck w the sale. maybe she will pop up again w a new owner.
I copied and pasted from KZ400 history article. Sounds like the Honda 360 and the 74 Kawi KZ400 have ALOT in common. So, good thing you got experience in that department.
"Early models were prone to oil leaks and unstable idling. Both the carburetors and the design of the oil passages were redesigned beginning in 1977."
Well i am sorry to see her go. Good Luck w the sale. maybe she will pop up again w a new owner.
I copied and pasted from KZ400 history article. Sounds like the Honda 360 and the 74 Kawi KZ400 have ALOT in common. So, good thing you got experience in that department.
"Early models were prone to oil leaks and unstable idling. Both the carburetors and the design of the oil passages were redesigned beginning in 1977."
