1976 Honda CB360T - The first step is admitting I have a problem build
- Thread starter 620dark
- Start date
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
Here's some more pictures from the motor teardown:
I found the reason it wouldn't shift:
One of the forks was stuck fast against the shaft. The other one was sticky. You can see how they rusted after being out of oil for so long. I worked the stuck fork off the shaft, and polished the shaft with some fine grit sandpaper. The forks slide just fine now
Getting the retaining pin out of the shift fork on the shift drum was a real PITA as well!
I used a long bolt, some washers, and a pair of nuts (heh) to press the cylinder bores off the pistons.
The pistons are in ok shape, but the oil control rings are cracked and broken. A new pair of them are on the way from Chiba city Japan.
I cracked the case next...
...and found some serious sludge. I haven't seen sludge this bad since the last time I pulled a valve cover off a Dodge Shadow!
Other than the sludge, the gear set looks good. No damage to the teeth, and everything slides freely.
I found the reason it wouldn't shift:
One of the forks was stuck fast against the shaft. The other one was sticky. You can see how they rusted after being out of oil for so long. I worked the stuck fork off the shaft, and polished the shaft with some fine grit sandpaper. The forks slide just fine now
Getting the retaining pin out of the shift fork on the shift drum was a real PITA as well!I used a long bolt, some washers, and a pair of nuts (heh) to press the cylinder bores off the pistons.
The pistons are in ok shape, but the oil control rings are cracked and broken. A new pair of them are on the way from Chiba city Japan.
I cracked the case next...
...and found some serious sludge. I haven't seen sludge this bad since the last time I pulled a valve cover off a Dodge Shadow!
Other than the sludge, the gear set looks good. No damage to the teeth, and everything slides freely.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Run a 3~4mm drill bit through the lower hole (the lock bolt)
There is a lip and flat on adjuster, won't normally come all the way out tapping
If you can keep it centered drill out with 5mm bit, push piece should spring out when you've gone deep enough
There is a lip and flat on adjuster, won't normally come all the way out tapping
If you can keep it centered drill out with 5mm bit, push piece should spring out when you've gone deep enough
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
I've been drilling in both holes and haven't been able to get the push piece / plunger out yet. I'll tap it some and try drilling more as needed. Both holes were pretty effed up before I even started messing with them, so I suspect I'll still need a bottom case, as well as new tensioner bits. Man, that little old lady was hard on this bike!
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
As long as you can get the busted bits out, you only need something to block the top hole and have threads for the lock bolt.
You could probably go to 8mm without any issues but the tip will need to be reduced in diameter and also flat
(it may be possible to go lager than 8mm)
You could probably go to 8mm without any issues but the tip will need to be reduced in diameter and also flat
(it may be possible to go lager than 8mm)
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
crazypj said:
Yea, I'll definitely need to retap both holes. They're pretty messed up. That's good to hear that there is hope as long as I can get what's left of the tensioner out.
I spent the day not working on bikes, so I'll update when I bang some sense into this thing!
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
Ok, I've located a $50 case set from a seller in Maine. He's going to verify that the tensioner bits are working properly, but is confident they are.
My reasoning is that even if I can get the bits drilled out of the original case, I'm still going to have to spend beaucoup dollars on new tensioner bits, plus taps and Helicoils (or Perma-coil, who has the amusing tag line of "the other name in thread repair").
Are the two case halves matched in any way? The upper case has the motor serial number, and for originalities' sake I'd like to retain it if possible. You know, so when it goes to Barret Jackson as a numbers-matching $1,000,000 bike
In any case, I cleaned and lubed the transmission bits, and they are shifting smoothly though all the gears now. As that was the other major problem with the powertrain, I'm glad that wasn't a big issue.
Hopefully I'll be working clockwise soon!
My reasoning is that even if I can get the bits drilled out of the original case, I'm still going to have to spend beaucoup dollars on new tensioner bits, plus taps and Helicoils (or Perma-coil, who has the amusing tag line of "the other name in thread repair").
Are the two case halves matched in any way? The upper case has the motor serial number, and for originalities' sake I'd like to retain it if possible. You know, so when it goes to Barret Jackson as a numbers-matching $1,000,000 bike
In any case, I cleaned and lubed the transmission bits, and they are shifting smoothly though all the gears now. As that was the other major problem with the powertrain, I'm glad that wasn't a big issue.
Hopefully I'll be working clockwise soon!
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
Yea, shipping's another $18 But hey, I need it.
Good to know they weren't matched from the factory. I'm going to put together a soda blasting rig and clean up the cases, jugs, and head while they're in a pile. I'm waiting for a head and a pair of intake valves to land at my door as well - I think all said and done there's going to be parts from three different motors going into this one.
But hey, I need it. Good to know they weren't matched from the factory. I'm going to put together a soda blasting rig and clean up the cases, jugs, and head while they're in a pile. I'm waiting for a head and a pair of intake valves to land at my door as well - I think all said and done there's going to be parts from three different motors going into this one.
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
According to the seller, the tensioner assembly on the case moves freely, so I paid for it ($68 shipped, not too bad) and it is on the way to me from scenic Maine. I should see it sometime next week, hopefully. The replacement head and intake valves should be here any day, so I'll have two heads to cherry pick the best one from. Piston rings should hopefully be here next week as well. I already have the gasket and oil seal sets, now I just need to get some HondaYamaThreeBond.
I have determined I am going to buy all three sealants and mix them together to form an ultimate case sealant that will assure leaks for years to come ;D
Hey PJ, I remember you mentioning something about making sure the oil passageways that feed the head are clear. It looks like those passageways are on the top sides of the case, near the studs. Is there anything special I should be doing to them other than making sure I can get a pipe cleaner or bore brush through them?
I have determined I am going to buy all three sealants and mix them together to form an ultimate case sealant that will assure leaks for years to come ;D
Hey PJ, I remember you mentioning something about making sure the oil passageways that feed the head are clear. It looks like those passageways are on the top sides of the case, near the studs. Is there anything special I should be doing to them other than making sure I can get a pipe cleaner or bore brush through them?
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
crazypj said:
Got it, will do. Also, I need to clearance the oil filter piece on the side cover, right? I may not be able to make this thing bulletproof, but if I can do little things to give this bike a second chance at a long and happy life, I'm all for it!
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
So a spare cylinder head and cam arrived in the mail for me today, thanks to the magic of USPS flat rate boxes.
There's some slight scoring on the center bearing surface, but other than that, the head looks good!
So what do I do with a perfectly good head? Start drilling holes in it for an oil supply to the center bearing!
I measured and marked where to drill to catch the existing oil feed. As others have mentioned, it's like Honda just didn't bother to drill the feed to the center bearing. The damn casting is already there!
Oil feed hole countersunk and small groove filed to feed excess oil to the cam lobe bath
Journal polished and head cleaned
I need to pick up a 1/4" tap and tap and plug the galley hole.
And here it is all cleaned and lubed testing that the cam spins freely
There's some slight scoring on the center bearing surface, but other than that, the head looks good!
So what do I do with a perfectly good head? Start drilling holes in it for an oil supply to the center bearing!
I measured and marked where to drill to catch the existing oil feed. As others have mentioned, it's like Honda just didn't bother to drill the feed to the center bearing. The damn casting is already there!
Oil feed hole countersunk and small groove filed to feed excess oil to the cam lobe bath
Journal polished and head cleaned
I need to pick up a 1/4" tap and tap and plug the galley hole.
And here it is all cleaned and lubed testing that the cam spins freely
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
Next up is opening up the oil feeds in the top engine case to ensure more oil gets to the top end, and also opening up the main oil feed off of the oil filter in the clutch cover.
It occurs to me that I should probably replace the cam chain, huh? It looks ok, but the motor did go out of time...
Any recommendations on a cam chain brand?
It occurs to me that I should probably replace the cam chain, huh? It looks ok, but the motor did go out of time...
Any recommendations on a cam chain brand?
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Get a solid side plate one for CB350/CB750 sohc and a soft link (usually sold as heavy duty or 'race')
Shorten to CB360 length rivet back together and your good to go.
As far as I can tell, they put less stress on tensioner and guide which is a good thing
Shorten to CB360 length rivet back together and your good to go.
As far as I can tell, they put less stress on tensioner and guide which is a good thing
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Nope, that's conventional/dogbone type
There are other places selling slightly cheaper but this is first I remembered
http://bore-tech.com/product/350-cam-chain-311-015
http://bore-tech.com/categories/honda-350-cbclsl/cam-and-valve
There are other places selling slightly cheaper but this is first I remembered
http://bore-tech.com/product/350-cam-chain-311-015
http://bore-tech.com/categories/honda-350-cbclsl/cam-and-valve
620dark
You can always get it running with time or money.
<sigh> The things I do for this bike ;D
I pulled the trigger on your recommended part. I've put so much work into the motor so far, it seems kind of silly to skimp on something important like this. The original cam chain had two very stiff links, ugh. At least the tensioner guides look good. I'm interested in LegendaryRider's upgraded parts, but I see he's having production problems.
Time to get a tap and a plug and seal up that oil galley. Frogman also recommended using a little JB Weld to close up the "spillway" on the points side bearing race to increase pressure to the center bearing and improve lubrication to the points side bearing. I feel the "spillway" I've cut in the center bearing race will help fill the cam lobe reservoir.
Can I stop buying parts now and just put this damn thing back together?
I pulled the trigger on your recommended part. I've put so much work into the motor so far, it seems kind of silly to skimp on something important like this. The original cam chain had two very stiff links, ugh. At least the tensioner guides look good. I'm interested in LegendaryRider's upgraded parts, but I see he's having production problems.
Time to get a tap and a plug and seal up that oil galley. Frogman also recommended using a little JB Weld to close up the "spillway" on the points side bearing race to increase pressure to the center bearing and improve lubrication to the points side bearing. I feel the "spillway" I've cut in the center bearing race will help fill the cam lobe reservoir.
Can I stop buying parts now and just put this damn thing back together?
