1976 Honda CB360T - The first step is admitting I have a problem build

crazypj said:
You got a soft link with new chain?
Price kinda sucks, but, they have them in stock

Yup, but I forgot to add heavy duty clutch springs :p I emailed them to see if they could be added to my order to save on shipping. I saw you recommend Rotella 5w40 synthetic in the 360s as long as HD springs are used. I use that flavor of Rotella in my turbo Subaru, so that's good I can use it in the bike too. The turbo Subarus have flat tappets, so the Rotella really quiets them down at idle when they are hot. Plus, it deals with the heat of the turbo a lot better than other oils I've used.

That reminds me, I have HD springs clutch in the CB650 - I bet I can run the Rotella in that as well and really cut down the number of oil jugs lying around...I wonder if the CBR will like it? I really need to get rid of some bikes this summer.
 
CBR will love it
I add half bottle ofZDDP to a gallon as well, just to be safe
Eastwood has it on offer at present, I paid $8.99 a bottle, I think it's $7.99 (which sucks as I bought 10 bottles last year :( )
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-zddp-oil-additive-4-oz-10-pack.html
 
I think I can get ZDDP at the local import parts store...I'll have to see what they charge. I need to pick up some brake parts lube there anyway, as I received the rebuild kit for my front caliper. I think I'm going to borrow your idea of installing a grease Zerk in the caliper arm pivot - that makes too much sense! It appears there's some weird non-locking Zerk by where the clutch cable goes into the rear engine / sprocket cover, I assume for lubing the clutch throw out assembly. Is it supposed to be completely smooth, or did the PO mess this up too?

I managed to get ahold of Bore Tech in time, and they added the HD clutch springs to the order, saving me on shipping. Now it's back to waiting for parts to beam in from all over the place. Oh, I just had to order a shift fork clip (24263-286-000), because I threw it out by accident. At least it's only $4, but digging through the coffee grounds and banana peels to try to find it was priceless :p

In the mean time, I can finish work on the cylinder head, including JB Weld for the points side bearing and tapping and plugging the oil gallery. I also have to pull the springs and replace the valve stem seals, but first I have the lap the valves. Might as well as long as I'm there!

I can also hone the bores and modify the oil feed thingie in the clutch side cover, as well as rebuild the brake caliper and modify it for a Zerk fitting. I need new lines for the brakes, but the current ones are probably good enough to hold fluid to make sure the master and the caliper work. There's a place near me that makes custom brake lines, and their prices are reasonable, but I don't even have this thing running yet, so that's getting ahead of myself.
 
The standard Honda grease nipple is smooth, you just need an ordinary pump action grease gun rather than high pressure lever action
There is always a lot more to do on these than it first appears, it's why 360's are never finished ;D
 
Oh crap, a weirdo grease gun? Yet another thing to buy? ;D

I picked up all the chemicals and sealants and whatnot I'll need to put the bike back together today. I need to get another can of engine degreaser already though! The first can did a great job of flushing the sludge out of the oil passageways in the clutch side cover, and it did a nice job getting the chain lube / rust / dirt mixture out of the sprocket cover.

I also tapped the oil passageway in the head and installed a 1/4" x 20 plug. I slathered the plug in high temp thread sealant, so hopefully that will do the trick.

Tapping

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Test fit of plug after flushing oil passageways to get metal shavings out of them

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Next, I started building up the points side bearing with JB Weld

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That is going to take another application of JB Weld - I'm not super happy how the first try turned out, but the stuff sands nicely.

Bonus! The Airtech Streamlining front fairing for the CBR900RR showed up today too! Guess I gotta get back to work on that bike as well. I obviously need a 360 for putting around town, a 650 for trips in the countryside, and a 900 for putting myself in the ER! ;D

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A lot of the paint and body work on the 360 and 900 will have to wait for warmer weather unless I can beg some space in our buddy's paint shop. I think just getting the motor running and tweaked in the 360 will take through February. Hell, just getting all the parts for the motor in one place will take another week or two lol! 360s are never done is right!
 
I never use the grease nipple, pack mechanism with high melting point MS3 or synthetic grease and check every year or so
I think there was a pump action grease gun in the garage when I bought house, they are pretty common at flea markets
 
I'll probably just pack it with grease for now. It's a moot point until I get the new engine cases anyway! :D At least it's greasy enough now that the ball bearing isn't going anywhere...
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-GREASE-GUN-8-oz-PUSH-POMPOM-TYPE-F-U-M-TOOLS-FUM-/380455130125?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item5894e4940d
 
Ooooh, one of those! I think we might even have one of those lying around from an old Triumph or something.
 
Probably, as I said, they are everywhere but no one uses them any longer.
No idea where I put any of the several I've had, strange thing is, I've never bought one ;D
 
Yea, I think they used to come with a lot of British cars / bikes. The weird tools and other junk we have lying around that only work on one minuscule subset of motor vehicles is pretty astounding. We have a tub of Whitworth fasteners just for working on British cars that stays on its lonesome away from the metric and standard stuff.

In any case, I didn't make as much progress as I would have liked yesterday, but at the end of the day I did get a good amount of work done. I removed the head / bore studs with careful application of a small pipe wrench and was then able to remove the remains of the very stuck base gasket. I now have the entire upper case free of old gasket bits, which is good. The bores got a hone and I removed gasket residue from the tops and bottoms as well as the old o-rings from the bottoms.

I ran into trouble disassembling the head - I was able to get two of the valves off, but only could get one back on with my whack-a-mole valve keeper remover before I ran out of time and motivation. I'm going to go rent or buy one of those c-clamp style spring compressors so I can finish lapping the valves and replacing the valve stem seals. The only other thing the head will then need is a bit more JB Weld on the points side bearing saddle. That will then get a final cleaning and oiling before being tucked away in a plastic bag.

Pictures!

Kinda dark, but I promise the combustion chambers have been cleaned up.

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Here's a closer shot of the one side before lapping.

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I also started de-ringing the pistons. Man are those rings in awful shape! They are seized hard in their lands - so far I've only managed to remove one ring intact, and two others in little pieces. One piston has a 1.5" piece still stuck in it, and the other has an entire ring still stuck. I'm soaking them in PB Blaster, but may move up to Coke or some other phosphoric acid containing compound like naval jelly if that doesn't do the trick.

There is so much burnt oil and sludge in every little bit of this motor that it is unbelievable! I suspect it received not many oil changes in its life, ugh. Another reason to run synthetic - good luck sludgeing oil that has a maximum operating temp of 302*F and a flash point of 446*F!

PJ, do you use any treatments on the base / head / breather gaskets and the base o-rings? On the side cover gaskets I know to use heavy grease to help them seal and make them easy to remove, and *Bond on the rocker box and case, but wasn't sure if all the other gaskets were installed dry or not. Thanks!
 
do not use anything on those gaskets. The grease may eventually melt/wash out and you may end up w leaks. The only gasket I put anything on is the stator cover. I rub a small amount of anti seize into it. Then wipe it all off as best as I can w a rag. only cause it gets removed more often for checking timing.
but now I got a cheapy circle cutter for making new stator cover gaskets whenever I need one.
http://www.hondabrat.com/2012/10/cheap-and-easy-alt-cover-gaskets.html
this tip came from Mydlyfkryzis.
 
Are you saying don't use anything on the head / base gasket or don't use anything on the clutch / stator gasket or both? The reason I use grease is that most of the paper gaskets I am used to work by swelling in contact with oil. The grease gets them swelling ahead of time and also prevents them from sticking so they can be removed.

That circle cutter idea is genius! I normally use the sheet of gasket paper and ball peen hammer / razor blade trick to make gaskets, but that takes forever for a complex gasket such as a clutch cover gasket. I just bought the gasket set for this bike because I knew I needed to replace every little gasket and seal and o-ring on it.

I do need to get a set of gasket hole punches along with that circle cutter...I might never have to buy a gasket again!

You know, I just remembered another trick - a guy scanned in / copied 1 - 1 scale copies of his gaskets, and then used them as a tracing to cut new gaskets out of sheets of gasket paper. It would be nice to have a set of gasket PDFs, no? I think I might have to spend some quality time with the scan-to-email function of my work copier on Monday...hmmmm!

PJ, thanks, you really got me thinking about this today! I'll be sure to share any copies I come up with!
 
The gaskets are impregnated with a heat activated sealer, they don't swell like plain paper.
I always install 'dry', the only time I ever used grease (on my XS650 clutch cover) it leaked most of the oil out in 2 weeks (we were in NH for vacation, I did clutch cover just before we left )
Luckily bike was on side stand or there would have been even more mess to deal with when we got home :mad:
Try standing piston crown on a heating element, the expansion will usually free rings slightly so release oil can do its job.
Don't use a propane torch or similar, you don't want a lot of heat, just even heat.
Sometimes, pouring boiling water into upturned piston will free things up, leave PB blaster on the outside/rings
 
Ah, ok, I understand about the gaskets now.

I'll give the boiling water trick a try first - the pistons are pretty soaked in PB Blaster, so putting them on the gas heat of my stove may have "interesting" results ;D
 
Did boiling water, no dice, so I then packed it in snow, let it cool for 15 minutes, and then hit it with boiling water again. Still nothing. I did that same process again with the same result.

So I put the piston in a container of Coke and let it sit for an hour, which I don't think was long enough because it didn't make a difference. I then tried putting it on the stove and heating it. I then cooled it, and the top piston ring still refuses to budge! It is a stubborn so and so!

So, it's back in the Coke for a while so I can think about what to do next.

I also put more JB Weld on the head to build up the "wall" for the points side bearing saddle. Hurry up and wait time...
 
I got the ring out with some more soaking and some tapping with a very small screwdriver. The screwdriver died freeing the stuck ring. A moment of silence for this brave fallen screwdriver...
 
I also wanted to post up my improvised valve spring compressor. My Lisle whack a mole (valve keeper remover and installer) tool just wasn't doing the trick on the 360, and the tool I use on small block Fords was too big to work with the OHC Honda head.

I was just going to go spend the $25 to get a c-clamp style compressor, but could not find one place within 30 miles of me that had one, let alone knew what I was talking about.

So, I rigged one up myself out of a c-clamp and an O2 sensor socket, and it worked well enough to remove and install all four valves.

Pictures!

I put the threaded end square on the valve face to center the tool and protect the valve.

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I used some tape to secure the socket to the head of the c-clamp, but that was only needed to make initial set up easier. One the clamp is tightened, the socket isn't going anywhere.

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I used a combination of tweezers and a magnetic pick up tool to remove and install the keepers. Some heavy grease on the keepers and in the retainer help them from going everywhere.

This wasn't even my 15th choice on how to do the job, but sometimes we gotta improvise. Built not bought, right?
 
As promised, here's a PDF file of the paper gaskets for a '73-'76 CB/CL360. Mods, if there's a better place for this file to be, please let me know!

Everything except for the right side gasket should be printed on 8.5" x 11" paper. The right side gasket should be printed on 11" x 17" paper.

Enjoy!

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Hey bud...thats neater than $%^& but my machine arent treating them properly to save for printing. could you please email the pdf files. AND can I post em to my blog?
hondabrat.com@gmail.com
thanks
 
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