CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
Yeah, notice I change your mind isn't on the list. And when I say you that is the generic form, not talking 'to' anyone. LOL
A little insight into the brand hate debate.
- Thread starter CresentSon
- Start date
Hah, sure enough. I think I'd do really well as a mountain man. Maybe it's the pessimist in me, but I don't hold much hope for our collective future. Of course, I spent a solid chunk of time reading through lamebook.com today. Maybe that's got me in a funk, but still...bleak... :
CrescentSon said:
I don't mean to take this quote out of context, but this is the only statement I would disagree with. Just to clarify, I believe evil as a force DOES exist. That's all.
The existence of evil as a force doesn't exempt us from the evil acts we might commit though. We still make the decision to act.
CrescentSon said:
The Bible says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Nothing wrong with money itself!
Good discussion CrescentSon.
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
I think you guys are dicks. And your bikes are uglier than a hard core porn starring Bea Arthurs corpse and bull mastiff. I also belive that if I ever met any of you Id rather punch you in the eye than say hello. Ok, now that Ive said that I can still ride my Harley with pride. But shit... That means I wont be able to ride my Honda. Well fuck. Hahaha.
Ringo said:
Much as I'd like to think that my powers of persuasion will win over another convert, in reality all I want to do is to try to get the OP to open their mind to the possibility of another interpretation. if their mind is open we can discuss any subject from different perspectives and both learn from the interchange. If they are closed because of a fear that considering another outcome might raise a question as to who they are and what they believe in, then it's pretty much a lost cause.
Doesn't stop me trying though.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Catbird said:
I visit C.R. regular, never had any problem even as a 'newbie' (although someone thought hy had chased me off as I didn't make 2nd (3rd/4th?) post for a day or two ;D
They may be overbearing, but, only when people join then start spouting how cool/hip/life style/smart/etc
I actually agree with a lot of the things they say and do
I usually direct people 'over here' when they are generally being 'dick head' so they can(hopefully) learn something
Catbird
DT250 epidemic - Patient Zero
I dunnow, I prefer mixing business and pleasure.
Many of those guys appear to need a stiff drink and a good lay. If I were in the position, I'd be happy to provide on the former (but would prefer not to be in the "position" to provide the latter ), as I believe anyone is capable of being cool if given the opportunity and the motivation.
What I've seen from CR.net amounts to a small handful of very valuable technical articles buried under a mountain of anger and rage at targets with whom I can often sympathize to a great extent. Much of it deals in attacking, rather than educating, the ignorant or misguided.
I guess it's a mindset thing. With the large variety of mindsets here, I feel like the general consensus is more that we are teachers, rather than guards. We've developed our aggregate, our group, to cover a very broad range of projects, topics, and preferences.
Their objective is a bit narrower, more historically "pure", in line with the original cafe-racer concept of building a bike purely for performance with minimal regard for comfort, as the initial rocker microculture did. Attempts to make a build for nostalgia or style are seen as thievery, or worse, defamation. Do I fault them? Not really, no. I can sympathize with them as they take a position similar to a culture that grew up using guns to hunt for food and defend themselves from predatory animals, being exposed to the hip-hop culture using guns as an expression of animosity toward police.
FOr the same sort of reason, they might see themselves not so much as teachers, and more as guards of something they hold in high esteem and feel is in danger of contamination.
Do I *agree* with them? Not necessarily. But since I understand my reasons for disagreeing, and I feel as though I understand their reasoning for their own ideology, I can still respect what they believe.
That being said, DTT is *much* more chill, which works better with my occasionally irreverent mindset.
Many of those guys appear to need a stiff drink and a good lay. If I were in the position, I'd be happy to provide on the former (but would prefer not to be in the "position" to provide the latter
), as I believe anyone is capable of being cool if given the opportunity and the motivation. What I've seen from CR.net amounts to a small handful of very valuable technical articles buried under a mountain of anger and rage at targets with whom I can often sympathize to a great extent. Much of it deals in attacking, rather than educating, the ignorant or misguided.
I guess it's a mindset thing. With the large variety of mindsets here, I feel like the general consensus is more that we are teachers, rather than guards. We've developed our aggregate, our group, to cover a very broad range of projects, topics, and preferences.
Their objective is a bit narrower, more historically "pure", in line with the original cafe-racer concept of building a bike purely for performance with minimal regard for comfort, as the initial rocker microculture did. Attempts to make a build for nostalgia or style are seen as thievery, or worse, defamation. Do I fault them? Not really, no. I can sympathize with them as they take a position similar to a culture that grew up using guns to hunt for food and defend themselves from predatory animals, being exposed to the hip-hop culture using guns as an expression of animosity toward police.
FOr the same sort of reason, they might see themselves not so much as teachers, and more as guards of something they hold in high esteem and feel is in danger of contamination.
Do I *agree* with them? Not necessarily. But since I understand my reasons for disagreeing, and I feel as though I understand their reasoning for their own ideology, I can still respect what they believe.
That being said, DTT is *much* more chill, which works better with my occasionally irreverent mindset.
CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
Drewski said:I don't mean to take this quote out of context, but this is the only statement I would disagree with. Just to clarify, I believe evil as a force DOES exist. That's all.
The existence of evil as a force doesn't exempt us from the evil acts we might commit though. We still make the decision to act.
The Bible says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Nothing wrong with money itself!
Good discussion CrescentSon.
There is certainly a category of actions and outcomes that can be defined as evil. When you truly analyze the motivation behind the action you'll find that there was logic involved, and the logic for whatever reason was flawed. Even if the "insert villain demigod" made me do it, his action is based on a misguided belief.
I don't want to tread on religion here, so I'll pose it in practical/fictional terms. Hanibal Lecter preyed on the insecurities of a broken psyche and cultivated a serial killer. Both men were seeing the world through a distorted mindset. As such they were able to do things that were horrible, but only because of tainted juddgement an values. The presence of a puppetmaster does not eliminate the necessity of a fallacy.
In fact the love of money better illustrates my point elegantly. One places an exorbitant value on money which minimizes the cost of acquiring it. Lives are lost in the pusuit of something with next to no practical value other than the arbitrary amounts we assign to it.
This actually touches on another tennant of my personal philosophy. By eliminating evil as the source you can then focus on the actual mechanics of the problem. If you think gremlins are keeping your CB whatever from charging, you won't be looking for the faulty ground (gremlin spray is actually corrosive, and causes more grounding issues). Like the brand hate, the only way to fix it is to understand the mechanisms in play, and be aware of how they function.
I think I get ya CS.
If I read you right, you're saying that our choices or actions are based on our perceptions or the information we believe. Whether it's incomplete or complete, real or imagined, right or wrong; that's what we act on. Right? Set me straight if I'm reading this wrong.
I'm a simple guy. I tend to use simple words.
If I read you right, you're saying that our choices or actions are based on our perceptions or the information we believe. Whether it's incomplete or complete, real or imagined, right or wrong; that's what we act on. Right? Set me straight if I'm reading this wrong.
I'm a simple guy. I tend to use simple words.
CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
Personally I believe strongly in a universal morality, and an internal compass that we all have. I don't claim to know it source, learned or inherent, but it is there. Most toddlers know what they did is wrong. I just don't believe in a universal source of evil.
It seems to me that since the inanimate is incapable of good or evil, that both must originate in the animate. Good and evil both universally and on an individual level are created within the consciousness and expressed through decisions and action.
A lot of people have asked me in both religious and secular conversations how I explain the existence of evil. People get stuck on why bad things happen to good people. In both settings the explanation is free choice. As a function of the universe, you cannot have free choice without the ability to choose poorly. The average choice involves so many unknowns that you have to work with huge averages, unreal probabilities, and incalculable unknowns. The average person is faced with more calculations and decisions when standing in the store picking a toothpaste than a cave man had to face in a year. In truth higher brain function involves an amazing amount of guess work. The brain is equipped with the ability to make illogical choices for that reason.
The take away is that the system to explain evil is the same system that explains great art, ingenuity, and all creative thinking and expression. A computer will never create or appreciate art, due to an inability to be illogical. On the same line a computer would never kill for money unless you programed the value of life with a monetary equivalent.
So, yeah Drew. Evil is a product of the human (and animal) ability to act on incomplete or erroneous information. Simply labeling the boogie man as evil is the mind attempting to summarize a threat so an effective decision can be made with only the limited information on hand. So it analyzes patterns and makes predictive assumptions that are prone to error. Ultimately, the only way to have a utopian world where HDs and Hondas coexists is to understand more about yourself, and open your mind to the situation and actions of the 'Others'. Or simply remove humans, as the bikes tend not to judge (well except Tyler's bike).
It seems to me that since the inanimate is incapable of good or evil, that both must originate in the animate. Good and evil both universally and on an individual level are created within the consciousness and expressed through decisions and action.
A lot of people have asked me in both religious and secular conversations how I explain the existence of evil. People get stuck on why bad things happen to good people. In both settings the explanation is free choice. As a function of the universe, you cannot have free choice without the ability to choose poorly. The average choice involves so many unknowns that you have to work with huge averages, unreal probabilities, and incalculable unknowns. The average person is faced with more calculations and decisions when standing in the store picking a toothpaste than a cave man had to face in a year. In truth higher brain function involves an amazing amount of guess work. The brain is equipped with the ability to make illogical choices for that reason.
The take away is that the system to explain evil is the same system that explains great art, ingenuity, and all creative thinking and expression. A computer will never create or appreciate art, due to an inability to be illogical. On the same line a computer would never kill for money unless you programed the value of life with a monetary equivalent.
So, yeah Drew. Evil is a product of the human (and animal) ability to act on incomplete or erroneous information. Simply labeling the boogie man as evil is the mind attempting to summarize a threat so an effective decision can be made with only the limited information on hand. So it analyzes patterns and makes predictive assumptions that are prone to error. Ultimately, the only way to have a utopian world where HDs and Hondas coexists is to understand more about yourself, and open your mind to the situation and actions of the 'Others'. Or simply remove humans, as the bikes tend not to judge (well except Tyler's bike).
joeybaggadonuts
comin in hot, hit em wit it
whoa.
CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
hocbj23 said:
N
NortonGuy
Guest
There is a name for people like those children who formed groups and decided they did not like each other, that name is "Average".
As above so below and as below so above. Average is what most people do. Whatever is most popular is average. Whatever there is the most of is average. When there is a superstar celebrity that everyone worships and watches and listens to, that is not an example of anything extraordinary, it is a perfect example of what is average.
In a survival situation, a small and closed minded person or people will put themselves before all others and think that they are making the best choice to ensure that they live, but people able to see the big picture will realize that human beings and many animals and insects etc. survive much better and have gotten where they are by cooperation. They realize that if everyone looks out for everyone else with no exceptions that they create an environment that is going to be the happiest and healthiest and most favorable for life. Much more favorable than an environment filled with selfishness, treachery and fear.
The phrase "Self Knowledge", or it's equivalent has been put on a human condition for as long as man has walked the earth, the condition of acute awareness of the phenomenon of ego in the world whether it is part of oneself or another being. This self knowledge is discovered and lost and discovered again over an over around the world through ages, societies and cultures.
"Asymetric Insight" is nothing new at all. It is just a small part of what has been very well known before thousands of years ago as Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. and also known in the west by a few select philosophers and individuals, even by very early Christians before that was turned into a religion and twisted into a tool for the wealthy and powerful.
The common thread found by all throughout history about themselves, has been that you and any thoughts you might have exist absolutely nowhere at all outside your skull. If your actions originate from what is outside your skull, then they will be in harmony with what is outside your skull, if your actions originate from what is inside your skull, then those actions will be in conflict with what is outside it.
What is outside yourself and your thinking is absolutely everything in the universe. You can be part of that, or you can be part of the world and the universe that exists nowhere and for nobody but yourself. It is very average to exist in the mode of self, or ego. It is the way of existence for almost everyone in modern western societies. Everyone going about their business seeing a world that is only a personal interpretation of theirs, and when these blinded people bump into something that does not fit into their vision then they go about changing it, as G.B. Shaw mentions.
Those aware of themselves and the world outside themselves, those who can actually see, can exist in harmony with what actually is, what really exists. They are alive and have communion with all life and do not separate themselves from the rest of the universe, they have no conflict with it.
When those who are awake happen across another that is sleep-walking, if it fits into the scheme of things they may attempt to wake them up, but this is no easier than getting someone to quit smoking by telling them to stop. Most will never wake up unless they are lucky to realize and see the manner in which they are asleep, that they are living in a dream, just as most will never stop drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes unless they see the truth themselves about the damage they cause. They are as rare as four-leaf clovers.
The self is very cunning and wily in the way it will keep you believing in it. It is you, and it does not want to end. You will do anything to keep from quitting something as tiny and insignificant as smoking cigarettes, just think what you will do to keep from quitting yourself?! Not much hope there.
Thought is actually your gravest enemy. It was originally a tool for the continuity of life, to be taken out and used when it was of benefit, and then to be put away when it's usefulness was past. But somewhere along the way the user fell into his tool and believed it was himself, and he almost never realizes what has happened and only one in ten thousand times finds his way back out of thinking and thought.
Good luck with that......
As above so below and as below so above. Average is what most people do. Whatever is most popular is average. Whatever there is the most of is average. When there is a superstar celebrity that everyone worships and watches and listens to, that is not an example of anything extraordinary, it is a perfect example of what is average.
In a survival situation, a small and closed minded person or people will put themselves before all others and think that they are making the best choice to ensure that they live, but people able to see the big picture will realize that human beings and many animals and insects etc. survive much better and have gotten where they are by cooperation. They realize that if everyone looks out for everyone else with no exceptions that they create an environment that is going to be the happiest and healthiest and most favorable for life. Much more favorable than an environment filled with selfishness, treachery and fear.
The phrase "Self Knowledge", or it's equivalent has been put on a human condition for as long as man has walked the earth, the condition of acute awareness of the phenomenon of ego in the world whether it is part of oneself or another being. This self knowledge is discovered and lost and discovered again over an over around the world through ages, societies and cultures.
"Asymetric Insight" is nothing new at all. It is just a small part of what has been very well known before thousands of years ago as Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. and also known in the west by a few select philosophers and individuals, even by very early Christians before that was turned into a religion and twisted into a tool for the wealthy and powerful.
The common thread found by all throughout history about themselves, has been that you and any thoughts you might have exist absolutely nowhere at all outside your skull. If your actions originate from what is outside your skull, then they will be in harmony with what is outside your skull, if your actions originate from what is inside your skull, then those actions will be in conflict with what is outside it.
What is outside yourself and your thinking is absolutely everything in the universe. You can be part of that, or you can be part of the world and the universe that exists nowhere and for nobody but yourself. It is very average to exist in the mode of self, or ego. It is the way of existence for almost everyone in modern western societies. Everyone going about their business seeing a world that is only a personal interpretation of theirs, and when these blinded people bump into something that does not fit into their vision then they go about changing it, as G.B. Shaw mentions.
Those aware of themselves and the world outside themselves, those who can actually see, can exist in harmony with what actually is, what really exists. They are alive and have communion with all life and do not separate themselves from the rest of the universe, they have no conflict with it.
When those who are awake happen across another that is sleep-walking, if it fits into the scheme of things they may attempt to wake them up, but this is no easier than getting someone to quit smoking by telling them to stop. Most will never wake up unless they are lucky to realize and see the manner in which they are asleep, that they are living in a dream, just as most will never stop drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes unless they see the truth themselves about the damage they cause. They are as rare as four-leaf clovers.
The self is very cunning and wily in the way it will keep you believing in it. It is you, and it does not want to end. You will do anything to keep from quitting something as tiny and insignificant as smoking cigarettes, just think what you will do to keep from quitting yourself?! Not much hope there.
Thought is actually your gravest enemy. It was originally a tool for the continuity of life, to be taken out and used when it was of benefit, and then to be put away when it's usefulness was past. But somewhere along the way the user fell into his tool and believed it was himself, and he almost never realizes what has happened and only one in ten thousand times finds his way back out of thinking and thought.
Good luck with that......
