Absolutely nothing to do with bikes. Makes fun of our govt
- Thread starter reelinfeele
- Start date
4eys, I agree with most of that and as you mention it's the "people's hand" we need to get cash so that they can increase the rate at which money churns. A small decrease in taxes on the lower paid has a huge effect on their spending where even a lrge change on teh well off has little impact.
I understand the cause and effect thin. The point I was making was that higher or lower taxes have little or no effect on investment or job creation. It's a myth. The current "debate" is centered around the statement that higher taxes kill jobs which is not true when those taxes actually relate to discounts for jet plane and race horse owners.
Interestingly enough, many of those tax deductions supposedly were to save an industry and therefore save jobs at some point in the past and are no longer relevant in many cases.
We actually have several major structural issues to address and fixing one too fast will cause problems with others.
We spend more as a nation (individuals as well as governments state and federal) than we generate as income, so we need to cut back on imports and consumption. If we do that too fast, it kills jobs in all sorts of service sectors, so that process has to be manged.
We need to generate new jobs and that will only happen under certain circumstances and new technology has typically been supported heavily by Government, but that increases the deficit, so that also has to be carefully balanced. new jobs in manufacturing are unlikely to appear any time soon and that causes problems with unemployment and imports, so we need to talk about where those jobs will come from and how they will be created.
As long as it's cheaper to import, then corporate American has no incentive to make things here and as long as we demand more stuff and we want it cheap, there will be no demand for American made products.
Health care in the US is rates somewhere around 40th in outcomes and yet it costs more here than anywhere else and that's also driving us to debtors prison. If we really drive down health care costs some of that cost reduction will be in smaller margins to big Pharma who will in turn cut some jobs or move them overseas - damn. That was what we just tried to avoid.
None of the issues in insurmountable but they are not easy to fix and even harder unless both sides agree to actually do the right thing and work together. After all, we pay them to tackle these big issues, not to stand on principal for a small group of people.
It ain't easy, but if it was, anyone could do it and that is what we got - a lot of "anyones" that can't actually see past their noses to see a larger picture. Some will argue that their job is to look after just the people that got them into power - lobbyists or poltically motivated groups on either side of the fence.
In reality, all politicians are paid very well by all of us to do the work for ALL Americans and we need to remind them that they have duties as well as rights. We are all in this mess together and the only way to get out of it is to work together.
PJ: There was third thing to not talk about in polite company, what was that? ;-)
I understand the cause and effect thin. The point I was making was that higher or lower taxes have little or no effect on investment or job creation. It's a myth. The current "debate" is centered around the statement that higher taxes kill jobs which is not true when those taxes actually relate to discounts for jet plane and race horse owners.
Interestingly enough, many of those tax deductions supposedly were to save an industry and therefore save jobs at some point in the past and are no longer relevant in many cases.
We actually have several major structural issues to address and fixing one too fast will cause problems with others.
We spend more as a nation (individuals as well as governments state and federal) than we generate as income, so we need to cut back on imports and consumption. If we do that too fast, it kills jobs in all sorts of service sectors, so that process has to be manged.
We need to generate new jobs and that will only happen under certain circumstances and new technology has typically been supported heavily by Government, but that increases the deficit, so that also has to be carefully balanced. new jobs in manufacturing are unlikely to appear any time soon and that causes problems with unemployment and imports, so we need to talk about where those jobs will come from and how they will be created.
As long as it's cheaper to import, then corporate American has no incentive to make things here and as long as we demand more stuff and we want it cheap, there will be no demand for American made products.
Health care in the US is rates somewhere around 40th in outcomes and yet it costs more here than anywhere else and that's also driving us to debtors prison. If we really drive down health care costs some of that cost reduction will be in smaller margins to big Pharma who will in turn cut some jobs or move them overseas - damn. That was what we just tried to avoid.
None of the issues in insurmountable but they are not easy to fix and even harder unless both sides agree to actually do the right thing and work together. After all, we pay them to tackle these big issues, not to stand on principal for a small group of people.
It ain't easy, but if it was, anyone could do it and that is what we got - a lot of "anyones" that can't actually see past their noses to see a larger picture. Some will argue that their job is to look after just the people that got them into power - lobbyists or poltically motivated groups on either side of the fence.
In reality, all politicians are paid very well by all of us to do the work for ALL Americans and we need to remind them that they have duties as well as rights. We are all in this mess together and the only way to get out of it is to work together.
PJ: There was third thing to not talk about in polite company, what was that? ;-)
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
4eyes, I don't get fuck all for over 11yrs of trying to teach some dumb fucker's not to kill anyone (probably 10% of the students)
I'm now unemployed and not very employable
Messed up arm from accident in work, messed up teeth from greedy crappy dentist, messed up back which is probably a continuation of the accident I had in work 7yrs ago
Teazer, dunno about the third thing?
I've been in 'polite company' (when I was Mayors Consort for a year)
Sex maybe?
I'm now unemployed and not very employable
Messed up arm from accident in work, messed up teeth from greedy crappy dentist, messed up back which is probably a continuation of the accident I had in work 7yrs ago
Teazer, dunno about the third thing?
I've been in 'polite company' (when I was Mayors Consort for a year)
Sex maybe?
t71ford
Over 1,000 Posts
crazypj said:
At least politics doesn't get ugly around here--none one is vying for a political platform. That is really nice.
But I don't think the "greed is good" idea started with Clinton, or even our government. People have always been just plain greedy. I think many forget that the power of any government originates with its people, and that (especially in our current form), the wishes of the people are reflected in the results of the government. Unfortunately, (again, especially with our current government), the wishes of the majority will take precedent. If money alone bought votes, I believe this country would have a much smaller social agenda, and a much larger business sector.
By this I mean that those items regarding social programs would take a back burner to large corporate interests. And while many beileve this is currently the case, I think that the insistence to maintain the current social portfolio is proof that there is still a large representation of voter/ non business interest in Washington. Those receiving or believing in these social works still number enough to be acknowleged. And, from a strictly economic and non-humanitarian and business perspective, these social works also reflect a certain level of entitlement from the American people. The level of that entitlement is what will ultimately decide the outcome of these social works, since a business perspective would shut them down immediately.
I guess to end, I just want to maintain that what I have put down here does not reflect any kind of party/ platform pushing. These are my own thoughts on the matter. What bothers me the most about these discussions is when people begin to refer to the "government" as a separate entity, which acts according to its will, instead of realizing that the government is what we have all ultimately made it, regardless of what the conspiracy theorists will say. We have brought ourselves to this point, and I think only we can get ourselves back from it.
PJ, Yes, that was it. I had forgotten.....
T71, yes we can be greedy - it's part of human nature but the US is unique in several ways and that individualistic "greed" is a uniquely US construct - at least to the degree we have it here.
An theory was floated recently that the US economy has been living beyond its means since the end of WW2 and that we have as a society managed to find ways to keep increasing our ability to buy. First is was overtime and then two parents working and then it was credit cards and then home equity.
The credit card issue is probably the root of all our economic woes in that up til the deregulation of the Financial services industry starting with the S&L deregulation that led to a bail out back in the eighties(?). But one of several debacles was the change that allowed credit card companies to hike rates up to 20+%. Prior to that change, they were limited in individual states to 5-8%.
That change allowed companies to offer credit cards to all of us who had no ability to pay them back. It had two effects. One was that we collectively started to buy a whole lot of stuff we really didn't need and couldn't afford. The good new there was that it employed a few people but the balance of payments and debt started to grow.
The other effect was that Wall Street started to ask why other companies weren't making the same sort of profits that Financial Services were making and that led many CEOs to start boosting profits to unsustainable levels through downsizing and off-shoring production. That has continued to hurt this economy and too many CEOs and Boards of directors are committed to short term profits regardless of how detrimental that can be to long term prospects if the two are not balanced.
I personally dislike the use of the word Entitlements because it's emotionally loaded and implies that those that benefit are all feeling entitled and that's not exactly the whole truth.
As corporate America reduces contributions to retirement plans, we ave failed to replace that with anything else and talk of IRAs etc are not always practical. We need to come up with a comprehensive retirement plan that "we" contribute to in some way that provides sufficient funding for retirement. We also need to tackle the cost of healthcare and it's US that need to do it. We need to look at our own expenditures and investments for the future and we need to engage our elected representatives in meaningful discussions.
The current debt discussions have been disgusting in their tone and we need to tell our reps and senators that it's not how we want them to do our work. We are part of the problem or we can be part of the solution - the choice is ours and the time is now.
T71, yes we can be greedy - it's part of human nature but the US is unique in several ways and that individualistic "greed" is a uniquely US construct - at least to the degree we have it here.
An theory was floated recently that the US economy has been living beyond its means since the end of WW2 and that we have as a society managed to find ways to keep increasing our ability to buy. First is was overtime and then two parents working and then it was credit cards and then home equity.
The credit card issue is probably the root of all our economic woes in that up til the deregulation of the Financial services industry starting with the S&L deregulation that led to a bail out back in the eighties(?). But one of several debacles was the change that allowed credit card companies to hike rates up to 20+%. Prior to that change, they were limited in individual states to 5-8%.
That change allowed companies to offer credit cards to all of us who had no ability to pay them back. It had two effects. One was that we collectively started to buy a whole lot of stuff we really didn't need and couldn't afford. The good new there was that it employed a few people but the balance of payments and debt started to grow.
The other effect was that Wall Street started to ask why other companies weren't making the same sort of profits that Financial Services were making and that led many CEOs to start boosting profits to unsustainable levels through downsizing and off-shoring production. That has continued to hurt this economy and too many CEOs and Boards of directors are committed to short term profits regardless of how detrimental that can be to long term prospects if the two are not balanced.
I personally dislike the use of the word Entitlements because it's emotionally loaded and implies that those that benefit are all feeling entitled and that's not exactly the whole truth.
As corporate America reduces contributions to retirement plans, we ave failed to replace that with anything else and talk of IRAs etc are not always practical. We need to come up with a comprehensive retirement plan that "we" contribute to in some way that provides sufficient funding for retirement. We also need to tackle the cost of healthcare and it's US that need to do it. We need to look at our own expenditures and investments for the future and we need to engage our elected representatives in meaningful discussions.
The current debt discussions have been disgusting in their tone and we need to tell our reps and senators that it's not how we want them to do our work. We are part of the problem or we can be part of the solution - the choice is ours and the time is now.
crazypj said:
PJ, I too live on a disability check. And know way more about back pain than I would like.
But I'm sure you will agree that there are individuals that "game" the system for both cash, and pain med's.
And my daughter is graduating next year with a degree in education (middle school).
At the end of the day, I think we all agree on what the problems are, and on what the solutions will entail. But I don't think "politics as usual" will get us there. And I don't think you guys do either.
Politics as usual : "Some will argue that their job is to look after just the people that got them into power - lobbyists or poltically motivated groups on either side of the fence. "
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
4eyes said:PJ, I too live on a disability check. And know way more about back pain than I would like.
But I'm sure you will agree that there are individuals that "game" the system for both cash, and pain med's.
OK, I didn't know that
Yep, there are a lot of people who 'work the system' in any country where there is social security.
Britain is a lot worse, judging by newspaper exposé’s
I'm just really pissed off that company who promoted 'loyalty' dumped me after I gave so much without 'fixing me up' first
Cafe_to_go
Coast to Coast
Pay to Play, a term coined in Illinois politicis, but it's a unviersal term not only limited to the state of Illinois. Pay attention at the 2min marking.
http://youtu.be/YlVDGmjz7eM
http://youtu.be/YlVDGmjz7eM
reelinfeele
Been Around the Block
Wow, i started this topic with a funny youtube video and got a whole bunch of we hate the man. Thats awesome. I wonder if everyone even watched the video for the comedy?
OpTiCz
Coast to Coast
Re: Re: Absolutely nothing to do with bikes. Makes fun of our govt
So when you mug me in the street, I can shoot you in the face. Gun control in the US is governed by the state, and unfortunately I live in the last state to have some sort of conceal carry law. People get mugged easily because gun bans only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. You think a criminal is going to obey the law? They know you aren't carrying, so your an easy target. Plain and simple, an armed society is a polite society.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
revheadgl said:
So when you mug me in the street, I can shoot you in the face. Gun control in the US is governed by the state, and unfortunately I live in the last state to have some sort of conceal carry law. People get mugged easily because gun bans only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. You think a criminal is going to obey the law? They know you aren't carrying, so your an easy target. Plain and simple, an armed society is a polite society.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
OpTiCz
Coast to Coast
Oh, advice my state gives for women under attack:
http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm
My personal favorite:
"It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results. (This method is not often used except as a last resort.) "
So if you can't arm yourself, just throw up on yourself.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm
My personal favorite:
"It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results. (This method is not often used except as a last resort.) "
So if you can't arm yourself, just throw up on yourself.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
Amazing! It took a whole three pages to get to guns. When I saw the thread title I figured it would get to guns before the end of the first page.
I refuse to get back into the gun argument again, but I am so glad that there are so many people who actually take the time to be concerned with the present day situation and current events. Sometimes I think that the powers that be believe us to all be uninterested. I still have to believe in the core of my being that it is still "we the people" here. In the end, if we could ever get along long enough to agree on something that would benefit us all in the end, the fact that we are the masses, and the mass social outcry generated because of those numbers could get results. Real results. It's a simple case in point that Americans love to argue. I have never in my life seen passion generated over such nonsense. There is a big picture here, we're just too busy fighting over whether it is a "t" or an "f" in the artists signature.
