CB360's-from build to blog - 2013, MDS (Mo Dumb Shit)

Rocan

"Long after I rest, my steel will live on"
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

bout time you got off your ass and did something ;)

looking good pj... how did you mount the degree wheel to the crank? i have one but havent thought of a way to mount it yet.
 

Swagger

Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

What are your thoughts on overlap?
 

Rocan

"Long after I rest, my steel will live on"
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

crazypj said:
You probably have a 3/4" hole in degree wheel, need to find some washers that will support outside (fender washers, ~5/16"hole, ~inch and quarter OD) and a washer that fits into center with a 8mm hole to keep it centered on crank.
Use a shorter bolt to clamp it all together
I got a piece of angle and drilled some holes to mount onto rocker cover bolts (with spacers to keep it level)
Have you got dial indicator with magnetic base yet?.
You need extension for indicator to reach down to spring retainer (although, working in a cycle shop you can probably find a spoke the correct thread and make extension, use shortened spoke nipple as locknut)
I'll get pic of top end set up tomorrow. (and pic of bottom yoke)
i have the motion pro degree wheel... the hole on it is TINY.

as for the dial indicator, dont have one... any tips on where i can find a good one?
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Rocan said:
i have the motion pro degree wheel... the hole on it is TINY.

as for the dial indicator, dont have one... any tips on where i can find a good one?
You only need a 8mm hole for bolt, still need some washers to support things though, file or drill it to fit if it's 6mm
I got some 1" travel DTI with magnetic bases from Harbor Freight tools, they are only about $20.00 'set' when on offer. (and about $26.00~$33.00 other times)
You only really need one, just swap between intake/exhaust for readings. ( I have 7 or 8 now, some good Mitutoyo and some special ones for twostroke timing plus some others for setting milling machine)


Swagger,
Overlap is a good thing, allows exhaust pulse to draw extra mixture in at 'tuned' rpm.
More overlap and narrow lobe centers push powerband up rpm range though.
If you've been searching you'll findit's difficult to find decent information online
Modern bikes can run at up to 130% V.E. because of almost vertical intake port angles (even without 'ram air')
Old stuff can get around 80% at high rpm (which is a pretty good number with 90 degree bend in intake)
Its less than 100 % at low rpm because of some flow reversion, gets around 100% at 4,500~ rpm even with flow reversion (which is partly accounts for super rich mid range when pods get fitted, messes up tuned lengths)
 

Swagger

Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

I've been looking at grinds for the 500T and some are getting close to 50* at "stock" settings and this seems pretty excessive to me. At some point it's gonna cross a line between acceptable losses and outright wastefulness.

Fucking cams! Every time I feel like I'm fairly well educated I find something else I need to know. As it stands I'm probably going to have to convert to coil springs and maybe one-off rockers. This crap gets outta hand so quick!
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Here's pic of DTI (dial test indicator) and angle plate.
You have to use an extension on DTI so your measuring off spring retainer.
I have very light springs fitted to one side only, no valves in right side (easier to turn and more accurate to measure)

I also stripped front end off one of the other 360's to get bottom yoke out for steering stem (not going to cut up the one I modified earlier in posts)
I may build engine out of it as its only done about 800 miles plus, still has kickstart shaft.
Bumpstarting is looking a bad idea for streetbike? ::)
Still going to build it though, track/race bike will need engine.
I should have 3 done eventually.
Thumb joint is hurting a lot, much more than expected after 3 days
I can barely wash my hands it's so bad :( :'(
PJ
 

Rocan

"Long after I rest, my steel will live on"
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

ok so let me get this right...

the degree wheel attached to the crank along with the dial test indicator on the valve spring retainer tells you at what degree the cam is opening up the valves right?

cool setup... that sucks on the thumb man...
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

There are plenty of instructions online about degreeing cams.
You'll have to swap between 2 pages for the pics.
First find TDC with a positive stop, easy with head off, just bolt a bar across cylinder.
Set degree wheel pointer to zero at TDC.
Cam timing is measured with zero lash but 0.040" lift (by turning cankshaft/cam, when DTI hits 40 thou, that's when flow is said to 'start')
Rockers slide sideways but don't move up and down to get zero valve clearance

PJ
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Woke too early this morning, bored with motor work so decided to finish the Suzuki yoke conversion.
Ground the seams and edges down, removed stem from CB360 bottom yoke, cleaned everything up and welded back together.
This is what I started with


This is just welded in, before I cleaned it up


this is what it looks like from the 'top' after I ground all the nastiness off (and radiused around where pinch bolts fit)
Lock stops modified for Honda frame
.
It's going to increase trail because it has less offset than stock 360 but I have further plans to get steering back to where it should be.
Was planning riding out to Dime City Cycles (being getting bike ready during week, hasn't been anywhere for months)
Weather isn't looking good, lightning alarms just gone off, rain about to start anytime. (115 miles each way has lost it's appeal ;))

PJ
 

CresentSon

Active Member
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

crazypj said:
I got to critique some stuff (to everyone living vicariously through these posts, it's what I do, live with it)
Did a bit of how/why
Left some idea's kicking around
Only great good can come from this. ;D
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Worked on top yoke to get it fitted onto Honda stem yesterday.
Spraybombed bottom yoke
Got real impatient this afternoon after work.
Decided to fit front end and see what spacers, etc I'll need (plus, I really wanted to see what it's going to look like) :D
Didn't have time or inclination to empty garage so worked in the walkway (my wife would go nuts if she saw this, I've already taken over a bunch of space :eek:)
It's going to need suspension travel shortened a bit (probably down to 4") and will still have a couple of inches of fork sticking through top yoke.
I can always put bars on top if it looks too much
Here's some pics 8)

 

Rocan

"Long after I rest, my steel will live on"
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

god... that looks hella sexy.
 

Kanticoy

Mad Science!
DTT BOTM WINNER
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

That does look extremely nice my friend. That shouldered wheel does it for me with that drum. Nice nice combo.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Rocan said:
god... that looks hella sexy.

Posted by: hillsy
Not using the pit-bike front end??

Posted by: Kanticoy
That does look extremely nice my friend. That shouldered wheel does it for me with that drum. Nice nice combo.
Thanks all, I knew it would look good, just didn't know how good ;D
Now I'm deciding if I'm going to paint lowers black, leave silver or polish? ::)

Hillsy,
The blue forks are stock 1992 (?) GSXR 750, (one year only)
Would be perfect length for 360 but I dont want 17" 3 spoke cast wheels and I think they may look a bit heavy?
 

hillsy

Active Member
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

crazypj said:
Hillsy,
The blue forks are stock 1992 (?) GSXR 750, (one year only)
Would be perfect length for 360 but I dont want 17" 3 spoke cast wheels and I think they may look a bit heavy?
Ahhh...so they are. I saw the blue and I thought they were pit bike forks ;D

I think you're right - USD forks would look too beefy for that front end.

Nice stuff ;)
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Yet another title change !

Just a quick update while I'm cooling off and having lunch (laptop in front of TV is great ;D
I look like I'm working under a sprinkler, sweating so much :eek:
It's a bit warm here, 91 degrees outside, 80 in garage (have to have door open)

Took a couple of painkillers this morning cos' I was hurting a bit ;)
Anyway, took top end back off motor after checking cam timing, almost 0.080" rotation of cam relative to sprocket


Forgot to post pics of front end before/after
This is what I started with for top yoke

This is how it looks now, top radiused, hole bored to fit Honda stem still needs a bunch more work, de-seamed, polished, etc (may paint it though? thought's/comments welcome)

Still have to strip forks and lower them (going to shorten suspension movement to about 4" total instead of 5.1")
Probably won't pull them apart until I get new seals.
 

Swagger

Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Nice top clamp, what's that from? Hell...if it's smooth enough I'd polish that thing, it's so simple and clean looking, it would really stand out nicely.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

stock 'Pre 98' Katana.
I couldn't leave it stock though, too angular, so, had to radius the top edge.
I'd like to get some 99 GSXR 600/750 forks, they look exactly like Kat ones but are almost 2" shorter, plus, full cartridge.
That would be total overkill though and would mean getting real good shocks to match

Made some new throttle cables this morning, hope to make some 'crescents' to fit into cam sprocket later today
I can then re-check cam timing and finish building motor.
Ran some numbers with present cam timing, need to make front pipes 3" longer to collector and 7" shorter at tail end compared to the system I made for testing.
Numbers will change, depending on where exactly cam timing ends up.
I'm hoping to be around 47~49deg before BDC (at 1mm lift)
Made this Saturday, MkIV tach drive block off plug.
It's evolving every time I make another one :D
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 665----667---------Neighbour's of the Beast

Ever had days when nothing goes right?
well, I did on Thursday, Friday almost as bad (doctor appointment, physical therapy) :(
Made several very small parts and managed to lose them, eventually made enough parts to make new throttle cables for both sets of VM carbs, (XS800 and CB378. )

Lost couple of sets of 'crescents' for cam sprocket holes so, after about 4hrs losing stuff, gave up and went to work

Today though, ever had a day when everything goes right, almost by accident, it still goes right ;D
Wife didn't want me getting oily in garage (we had to go 'visit' people) so I only got hour and half tonight

Made crescents for cam sprocket, took about 15 mins (from a 20mm bar. :eek:)

They fill up the space where bolt holes got filed out to slots, sprocket can't move when engine is running (read reports of CB350 sprocket bolts coming loose and/or cam timing slipping)
It's not the correct way to re-time cam but it is less work than doing it correctly and, the timing marks 'almost' line up so there is less chance of getting things wrong in future (correct way is slot one hole only, advance cam one full tooth then adjust timing to where you want it, do second hole to line up with bolt edge on cam)

7mm outside diameter, 7mm inside diameter, 0.064" offset. 8) (this only works for my skimmed head)

dropped cam sprocket bolt Thursday, couldn't find it anywhere, today, almost stepped on it, it was just 'there' :D

Cam timing is now (at checking lift)
intake opens 10 degrees before top dead center
intake closes 34.5 degrees after bottom dead center
Total open = 224.5 degrees
Max lift 0.320"(not corrected)

exhaust opens 48.5 degrees before bottom dead center
exhaust closes 1 degree before top dead center
total open 229.5 degrees
max lift 0.310" (not corrected)
Surprising, thought it would be substantially more on intake than exhaust?

I guess that's why CB360's don't run as well as CB350's?
Not ready to spend $400.00 on a 'race' cam though, particularly as stock 'mild' cam allows 11,500 rpm


Normally timing mark is completely level with gasket surface, this one 'lifts' to left. You can just about make out timing pin at 6:00 o clock position lining up with factory mark on oilseal housing
How close did I set things?
this close


PJ
 
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