CB360's-from build to blog - 2013, MDS (Mo Dumb Shit)
- Thread starter crazypj
- Start date
tWistedWheelz
BUILT NOT BOUGHT!
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
why hell yes I am interested! Don't forget the pics, I can't read! ;D
why hell yes I am interested! Don't forget the pics, I can't read! ;D
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Some pics ;D
1. completely stripped down engine, needs cleaning, lot of dust in there
2. CB378 I've been using to sort out carburatiuon
3. 2mm oversize pistons. Cylinder has been bored but not honed to size
4. eBay stuff. Suzuki forks, XS650 rear wheel, XS650 rear rim. I'm waiting for spoke set from Thailand.
going to strip wheel for rim and get a WM4 from Buchanan's sometime to rebuild it
5. Genuine Koni alloy body rear shocks, not the same as IKON
Haven't found transmission yet, have to look in more boxes
Will probably be working on the XS800 'bratbob' if I can find time, been a while since I looked at it
PJ
Some pics ;D
1. completely stripped down engine, needs cleaning, lot of dust in there
2. CB378 I've been using to sort out carburatiuon
3. 2mm oversize pistons. Cylinder has been bored but not honed to size
4. eBay stuff. Suzuki forks, XS650 rear wheel, XS650 rear rim. I'm waiting for spoke set from Thailand.
going to strip wheel for rim and get a WM4 from Buchanan's sometime to rebuild it
5. Genuine Koni alloy body rear shocks, not the same as IKON
Haven't found transmission yet, have to look in more boxes
Will probably be working on the XS800 'bratbob' if I can find time, been a while since I looked at it
PJ
forcefanajd
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
COOL!! those engine parts look like they are in fantastic condition
COOL!! those engine parts look like they are in fantastic condition
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
It was probably me, I don't remember posting it though :
It would be the bike in picture number two at top.
That has ported head and overbore to 378cc.
I didn't look at bottom end which is probably why clutch started slipping during dyno runs..
I have a new clutch for it (eBay) and two sets of heavy duty clutch springs. (as I always intended to do a second one when I got frame wih title)
This is all new, starting Friday 6th November 2009, anything I worked on previously is being mentioned (like cover in last pic of this update)
I want to see how far I can get with this in about 48hrs.
Heres some more pics of transmission being assembled
This shift fork fits onto drum. Drum has to be fitted into case while you fit it. The 'bolt' has two jobs, locates shift drum and also holds it in neutral by means of spring and ball bearing
shift drum sitting on case
you can see top of 'R' clip that holds pin which locates shift fork on drum. It was a right pain to fit
Shift drum and shift forks fitted to case
what it looks like with transmission and crank installed into upper case half.
Make sure you fit cam chain to crank before fitting crank to case ;D.
there is a 'horseshoe' which pivots on pin for cam chain tensioner, slot visible to left of crank
I turned back of generator rotor, not using electric start on this motor so all the parts are removed.
It should help the oil fly off?
Forgot to take pic of bottom end assembled, will ahve to do it tomorrow. Will try to get pics of honing cylinder but its a bit messy to do properly with only half the equipment ( got the important bit, AMMCO hone)
With care and taking my time a bit, I can get to within two tenthousandths of inch of perfect size
Here's sprocket cover/clutch mechanism lifter I modified a while ago, not sure if i should finish polishing it or just paint the damn thing?
all for now
PJ
mysta2 said:
It was probably me, I don't remember posting it though :
It would be the bike in picture number two at top.
That has ported head and overbore to 378cc.
I didn't look at bottom end which is probably why clutch started slipping during dyno runs..
I have a new clutch for it (eBay) and two sets of heavy duty clutch springs. (as I always intended to do a second one when I got frame wih title)
This is all new, starting Friday 6th November 2009, anything I worked on previously is being mentioned (like cover in last pic of this update)
I want to see how far I can get with this in about 48hrs.
Heres some more pics of transmission being assembled
This shift fork fits onto drum. Drum has to be fitted into case while you fit it. The 'bolt' has two jobs, locates shift drum and also holds it in neutral by means of spring and ball bearing
shift drum sitting on case
you can see top of 'R' clip that holds pin which locates shift fork on drum. It was a right pain to fit
Shift drum and shift forks fitted to case
what it looks like with transmission and crank installed into upper case half.
Make sure you fit cam chain to crank before fitting crank to case ;D.
there is a 'horseshoe' which pivots on pin for cam chain tensioner, slot visible to left of crank
I turned back of generator rotor, not using electric start on this motor so all the parts are removed.
It should help the oil fly off?
Forgot to take pic of bottom end assembled, will ahve to do it tomorrow. Will try to get pics of honing cylinder but its a bit messy to do properly with only half the equipment ( got the important bit, AMMCO hone)
With care and taking my time a bit, I can get to within two tenthousandths of inch of perfect size
Here's sprocket cover/clutch mechanism lifter I modified a while ago, not sure if i should finish polishing it or just paint the damn thing?
all for now
PJ
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Wholly hell, I was going to do that to my next bike and I couldn't remember where I got the Idea... but yup, it was you. Could that have possibly had anything to do with the clutch slipping? Was it on the test bike like that?
I found the post that I was looking for scattered throughout Total Motorcycle, Sohc, and the honda twins site. I've been chasing you all over the net. Did you know that no matter what i use to search, the only solid info on modding a 360 leads to a post by you. Other than that bespoke frame thing with 450 pistons (something like that) but that page has little substance.
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=26650&highlight=360
crazypj said:...
Here's sprocket cover/clutch mechanism lifter I modified a while ago, not sure if i should finish polishing it or just paint the damn thing?
Wholly hell, I was going to do that to my next bike and I couldn't remember where I got the Idea... but yup, it was you. Could that have possibly had anything to do with the clutch slipping? Was it on the test bike like that?
I found the post that I was looking for scattered throughout Total Motorcycle, Sohc, and the honda twins site. I've been chasing you all over the net. Did you know that no matter what i use to search, the only solid info on modding a 360 leads to a post by you. Other than that bespoke frame thing with 450 pistons (something like that) but that page has little substance.
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=26650&highlight=360
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Hi Mysta2, I'm probably the only person crazy enough to modify these things on a 'regular' basis.
It was never a very popular engine (as 250 or 360) and did have some major top end issuse's.
I havent used the carved up cover yet but it would cause clutch drag not slipping. (if was too flexible)
I left the webs in it at full depth so it should be just about as ridgid as stock.
Anyway, things didnt go according to plan ( do they ever? :)
I did some of the least favorite stuff, masked up bottom end and painted it silver (which I'm not very good at, particularly as shed has no lights)
Heres some pics from today.
My very least favorite job, masking ( anything)
cylinder bore gauge, pistons and micrometer
settting gauge to piston size plus required clearance (0.0015")
Measuring cylinder after boring, its still rough and undersize by 22 ten-thousandths of inch (0.0022")
Bore gauge showing 0.0013", it should show 0.0022" but I wiggled it slightly and 'lost' nine ten-thousandths of inch
very basic set up, bench vice, AMMCO hone, variable speed power drill. I really should make a tank with all the motors i'm playing with
honed to size, (actually, I went 0.0001" over so i have 0.0016"-sixteen ten-thousandths clearance)
Used 320 grit stones so finish is very smooth. cross hatch is a little 'flat' but perfectly usable
I modified another clutch hub and loosely fitted heavy duty springs (mainly so I can find them tomorrow ;D)
I skimmed the cylinder head as well, was hoping to finish porting and make battery box but that didn't happen ( didnt mow the lawns either ;D)
Had to come back in and edit multiple times as I postd some pictures wrong
PJ
Hi Mysta2, I'm probably the only person crazy enough to modify these things on a 'regular' basis.
It was never a very popular engine (as 250 or 360) and did have some major top end issuse's.
I havent used the carved up cover yet but it would cause clutch drag not slipping. (if was too flexible)
I left the webs in it at full depth so it should be just about as ridgid as stock.
Anyway, things didnt go according to plan ( do they ever? :
)I did some of the least favorite stuff, masked up bottom end and painted it silver (which I'm not very good at, particularly as shed has no lights)
Heres some pics from today.
My very least favorite job, masking ( anything)
cylinder bore gauge, pistons and micrometer
settting gauge to piston size plus required clearance (0.0015")
Measuring cylinder after boring, its still rough and undersize by 22 ten-thousandths of inch (0.0022")
Bore gauge showing 0.0013", it should show 0.0022" but I wiggled it slightly and 'lost' nine ten-thousandths of inch
very basic set up, bench vice, AMMCO hone, variable speed power drill. I really should make a tank with all the motors i'm playing with
honed to size, (actually, I went 0.0001" over so i have 0.0016"-sixteen ten-thousandths clearance
)Used 320 grit stones so finish is very smooth. cross hatch is a little 'flat' but perfectly usable
I modified another clutch hub and loosely fitted heavy duty springs (mainly so I can find them tomorrow ;D)
I skimmed the cylinder head as well, was hoping to finish porting and make battery box but that didn't happen ( didnt mow the lawns either ;D)
Had to come back in and edit multiple times as I postd some pictures wrong
PJ
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
+1
Hey PJ if you want to send me your cases I'll send you mine, I'll make yours look pretty if you make mine run pretty
Why did you tear out the bottom end and transmission of that 360? Was there anything you needed to replace, upgrade or repair or was it just for cleaning it up and peace of mind? I'm going to have to tear me next one down to swap an (Ebay) CB gearset in to replace my CL gearset. I took all the starter paraphernalia out of Loudbike:
It never occurred to me that I could turn the actual flywheel down.
+1
Hey PJ if you want to send me your cases I'll send you mine, I'll make yours look pretty if you make mine run pretty
Why did you tear out the bottom end and transmission of that 360? Was there anything you needed to replace, upgrade or repair or was it just for cleaning it up and peace of mind? I'm going to have to tear me next one down to swap an (Ebay) CB gearset in to replace my CL gearset. I took all the starter paraphernalia out of Loudbike:
It never occurred to me that I could turn the actual flywheel down.
CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Damn PJ, taking this serious I see. Should be a great build, and I'm sure I'llwaste invest many prime building hrs reading along.
Damn PJ, taking this serious I see. Should be a great build, and I'm sure I'll
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
I pulled the kickstart mechanism out, bumpstart only (too radical? 8))
I was going to lighten flywheels but decided its just too much work.
Haven't had a particularly productive weekend.
Got bottom end re-assembled
Got cases looking pretty
Got head skimmed 30 thou
Got cylinders honed to size and today sprayed them with Duplicolour semi-gloss black engine enamel, (still hate masking stuff ;D)
I know it works pretty good as I used it on the XS860 motor.
Amazed at how quick you can chew through a pack of cutting wheels on angle grinder ;D
Cut up some steel and made a new battery box, in keeping with my recycling ethic, its made from an old industrial shelf that had been thrown out.
Battery is also recycled, its out of a smoke detector, they have to be changed at certain interval.
Its 12v 7.5A/hr sealed, has held 12.70 volts for at least last month, I have had it on charge once.
They are also real cheap when available.
Anyone who has read threads from few months ago knows I don't like battey high at rear (hidden in seat hump)
I'm mounting it low and center (mass centralisation, its all the buzz in Moto GP, etc ;D ;D)
While I was at it I cut up some steel angle I bought to make something trick for the XS800 (probably should start a thread for it in Bobbers?)
May cut back end of frame back off (after I welded extension into it :, no planning, its 'evolving' as I go ;D)
Wasted an inordinate amount of time carving on styrofoam block, decided I want a specific tank shape - don't like what I've carved so will start again in a couple of days, probably use stock tank to get it running.
Did I mention I made fiberglass Kayaks at one time?
I have a little experience with 'glass', but not epoxy resins.
I'm going to make a fork brace (designing it now) It's going to be similar to onee I made in 1990 for CB400 ( monoshock, 500 conversion, etc, etc)
Need to finish machining the clamps for clip-on's, going to use my idea for bars similar to the XS800 except 'other way up'
Need to get in touch with Sudco to get new throttle slides for VM's, made new 'low profile' carb tops
Sorry, no pics of porting.
It's still too hot in Florida, even though it 'only' got to 80 today.
Hand is still messed up, need to go back to docs, if only they were not so inefficient and F****** arrogant, I get really pissed off waiting 2 hrs for nothing (it's a a workman's comp thing)
PJ
mysta2 said:+1
Hey PJ if you want to send me your cases I'll send you mine, I'll make yours look pretty if you make mine run pretty
Why did you tear out the bottom end and transmission of that 360? Was there anything you needed to replace, upgrade or repair or was it just for cleaning it up and peace of mind? I'm going to have to tear me next one down to swap an (Ebay) CB gearset in to replace my CL gearset. I took all the starter paraphernalia out of Loudbike:
It never occurred to me that I could turn the actual flywheel down.
I pulled the kickstart mechanism out, bumpstart only (too radical? 8))
I was going to lighten flywheels but decided its just too much work.
Haven't had a particularly productive weekend.
Got bottom end re-assembled
Got cases looking pretty
Got head skimmed 30 thou
Got cylinders honed to size and today sprayed them with Duplicolour semi-gloss black engine enamel, (still hate masking stuff ;D)
I know it works pretty good as I used it on the XS860 motor.
Amazed at how quick you can chew through a pack of cutting wheels on angle grinder ;D
Cut up some steel and made a new battery box, in keeping with my recycling ethic, its made from an old industrial shelf that had been thrown out.
Battery is also recycled, its out of a smoke detector, they have to be changed at certain interval.
Its 12v 7.5A/hr sealed, has held 12.70 volts for at least last month, I have had it on charge once.
They are also real cheap when available.
Anyone who has read threads from few months ago knows I don't like battey high at rear (hidden in seat hump)
I'm mounting it low and center (mass centralisation, its all the buzz in Moto GP, etc ;D ;D)
While I was at it I cut up some steel angle I bought to make something trick for the XS800 (probably should start a thread for it in Bobbers?)
May cut back end of frame back off (after I welded extension into it :
, no planning, its 'evolving' as I go ;D) Wasted an inordinate amount of time carving on styrofoam block, decided I want a specific tank shape - don't like what I've carved so will start again in a couple of days, probably use stock tank to get it running.
Did I mention I made fiberglass Kayaks at one time?
I have a little experience with 'glass', but not epoxy resins.
I'm going to make a fork brace (designing it now) It's going to be similar to onee I made in 1990 for CB400 ( monoshock, 500 conversion, etc, etc)
Need to finish machining the clamps for clip-on's, going to use my idea for bars similar to the XS800 except 'other way up'
Need to get in touch with Sudco to get new throttle slides for VM's, made new 'low profile' carb tops
Sorry, no pics of porting.
It's still too hot in Florida, even though it 'only' got to 80 today.
Hand is still messed up, need to go back to docs, if only they were not so inefficient and F****** arrogant, I get really pissed off waiting 2 hrs for nothing (it's a a workman's comp thing)
PJ
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Great work pj! You've really done your time on these things from the looks of it. It's cOol to see someone put so much time into something like a cb360. You and mysta really show how far you can really take it. I was actually hoping one of you two uys (I know mysta experimented in the past with Teflon) would come up with a viable solution to the ever plaguing cam chain slipper problem in these motors...please tell me you guys have plans in those areas!
I have contemplated the battery in the hump thing to no end too, and I finally came to this conclusion: while it may matter in pure fractional weigh measurements, I can't see how an extra fraction of a pound (mine weighs 10.5 ounces) can make that much of a difference in the weight distribution when it is generally located in the same position as the 150 some odd pounds (or 65 kg) of weight that the pilot is putting in the same area of the bike. I just couldn't ever wrap my head around how marginal the differences could possibly be. But hey I don't claim to be an expert, i just thought you might could provide a little insight to the method behind the madness.
Great attention to detail man...and bump start only huh! That's hardcore!
Great work pj! You've really done your time on these things from the looks of it. It's cOol to see someone put so much time into something like a cb360. You and mysta really show how far you can really take it. I was actually hoping one of you two uys (I know mysta experimented in the past with Teflon) would come up with a viable solution to the ever plaguing cam chain slipper problem in these motors...please tell me you guys have plans in those areas!
I have contemplated the battery in the hump thing to no end too, and I finally came to this conclusion: while it may matter in pure fractional weigh measurements, I can't see how an extra fraction of a pound (mine weighs 10.5 ounces) can make that much of a difference in the weight distribution when it is generally located in the same position as the 150 some odd pounds (or 65 kg) of weight that the pilot is putting in the same area of the bike. I just couldn't ever wrap my head around how marginal the differences could possibly be. But hey I don't claim to be an expert, i just thought you might could provide a little insight to the method behind the madness.
Great attention to detail man...and bump start only huh! That's hardcore!
sebatron
Coast to Coast
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
it's nice to get an insight on what the resident master gets up to
bump starting probably looks more majestic than kickstarting, at least thats how id justify it to myself.
just out of curiousity, how much meat can you take out of a cylinder wall with the ammco hone? is it literally for the .0*'s of an inch, or can you get a few millimetres out? say, 2mm out of an alloy wall?
it's nice to get an insight on what the resident master gets up to
bump starting probably looks more majestic than kickstarting, at least thats how id justify it to myself.
just out of curiousity, how much meat can you take out of a cylinder wall with the ammco hone? is it literally for the .0*'s of an inch, or can you get a few millimetres out? say, 2mm out of an alloy wall?
boingk
Standard gearhead.
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Very nice work, I'm mighty impressed. I was thinking of doing something like this to one of the smaller Hondas and then enter the vintage racing scene. You have any plans for racing, or is this just for kicks? Either way, good stuff man.
Meanwhile, the placement of perhiperal weight has a huge difference on how a bike turns. More specifically, how much effort you need to exert and how fast it will change direction. Place weight at the centre of gravity and it will have negligible effect on the handling capabilities of a vehicle. Place it further away and you start to deal with more complex things like directional inertia.
Try it for yourself, go for a run through the twisties with something with a bit of weight strapped securely to the tail of the bike (a half-gallon water container, perhaps, or a house brick). Now, remove the object and go for the same run. You'll notice a difference for sure.
Cheers - boingk
Very nice work, I'm mighty impressed. I was thinking of doing something like this to one of the smaller Hondas and then enter the vintage racing scene. You have any plans for racing, or is this just for kicks? Either way, good stuff man.
Meanwhile, the placement of perhiperal weight has a huge difference on how a bike turns. More specifically, how much effort you need to exert and how fast it will change direction. Place weight at the centre of gravity and it will have negligible effect on the handling capabilities of a vehicle. Place it further away and you start to deal with more complex things like directional inertia.
Try it for yourself, go for a run through the twisties with something with a bit of weight strapped securely to the tail of the bike (a half-gallon water container, perhaps, or a house brick). Now, remove the object and go for the same run. You'll notice a difference for sure.
Cheers - boingk
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
you don't really want to take more than 0.010" or so with a hone, too much like hard work.
You could tak 0.020~0.030" if you use 80 grit stones and a honing tank with constant flow of honing oil.
Its so easy to bore alloy its not worth the effort to try honing, except for final size
If your taking out 2mm, its much faster and easier to bore it.
I did seveal bores back in 1974 with a Bridgport mill, just about any machine shop will have at least one and generally be more amenable to boring small sizes,
Automotive places usually won't touch bike parts, "too small, we dont have anything that goes down that far" or similar.
Bike shops have been known to charge for multiple bores ( at $25~$35 a bore, 2mm could be 8 oversizes)
Anyway, I'm going to make this one a bump-start bike, if its too inconvenient, I'll just swap motor out of the 'dyno' bike (its already ported, skimmed head and 378cc)
It just wont look very pretty but its not a big deal to strip top end off and clean things up same as motor I'm now doing.
I have to change clutch on it sometime soon whatever I do, its no good to man nor beast with slipping clutch. ;D
PJ
sebatron said:it's nice to get an insight on what the resident master gets up to
bump starting probably looks more majestic than kickstarting, at least thats how id justify it to myself.
just out of curiousity, how much meat can you take out of a cylinder wall with the ammco hone? is it literally for the .0*'s of an inch, or can you get a few millimetres out? say, 2mm out of an alloy wall?
you don't really want to take more than 0.010" or so with a hone, too much like hard work.
You could tak 0.020~0.030" if you use 80 grit stones and a honing tank with constant flow of honing oil.
Its so easy to bore alloy its not worth the effort to try honing, except for final size
If your taking out 2mm, its much faster and easier to bore it.
I did seveal bores back in 1974 with a Bridgport mill, just about any machine shop will have at least one and generally be more amenable to boring small sizes,
Automotive places usually won't touch bike parts, "too small, we dont have anything that goes down that far" or similar.
Bike shops have been known to charge for multiple bores ( at $25~$35 a bore, 2mm could be 8 oversizes)
Anyway, I'm going to make this one a bump-start bike, if its too inconvenient, I'll just swap motor out of the 'dyno' bike (its already ported, skimmed head and 378cc)
It just wont look very pretty but its not a big deal to strip top end off and clean things up same as motor I'm now doing.
I have to change clutch on it sometime soon whatever I do, its no good to man nor beast with slipping clutch. ;D
PJ
Big R
Heaven is so far away.
Re: Yet another CB360 ( or two?)
Good looking work PJ! You said that battery is out of a smoke detector? I've never seen one that big. Or maybe it's just the picture blowing it out of proportion in my head.
I was having a problem with the battery on my Suzuki (too cheap to replace it) so I was bump starting for about a week back and forth to work. Luckily my house is on top of a hill and the parking lot at work also has a hill. But everybody thought I was "too good" to park next to the Harley's!
Good looking work PJ! You said that battery is out of a smoke detector? I've never seen one that big. Or maybe it's just the picture blowing it out of proportion in my head.
I was having a problem with the battery on my Suzuki (too cheap to replace it) so I was bump starting for about a week back and forth to work. Luckily my house is on top of a hill and the parking lot at work also has a hill. But everybody thought I was "too good" to park next to the Harley's!
