Monster Version 2

brad black

Been Around the Block
I've tried the VHT cast iron colour....didn't much like it tbh.....they do one called black pearl though, not exactly OE looking I know but I'm a big fan of it!
is it darkish grey or a bit off silver? i want something that's a touch darker than the aluminium colour, but certainly not grey. hard to find good photos of it on something. their nu-cast aluminium might be what i'm after. probably just have to buy a can and spray it on the same piece of steel that has the universal aluminium on it. probably should prime a piece of steel and then spray both on it to make it a fair comparison.
 

unclerob

Been Around the Block
The cast iron is a mid grey colour....a bit darker than it shows on their colour chart but can't find a pic of anything I've painted with it!
At one time though I was trying to match the Brembo caliper light gold colour on some cases...VHT gold is a lot darker....used the cast aluminium and then a light coat of gold on top while still wet....worked out quite well....maybe try a darker base coat then the aluminium?
I'm not so sure about the smell though....I bake mine in an old electric oven in the workshop....
 

semmins

Been Around the Block
DTT BOTM WINNER
I used the cast iron on an NTV as it was a close match to the original colour.
Also used the aluminium and satin black on a few Ducatis, and a CB750.
 

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brad black

Been Around the Block
I used the cast iron on an NTV as it was a close match to the original colour.
Also used the aluminium and satin black on a few Ducatis, and a CB750.
steveo? thanks for the pics - the ntv is way too dark. decision made - i'll just go with what i have.
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
The cast iron is a mid grey colour....a bit darker than it shows on their colour chart but can't find a pic of anything I've painted with it!
At one time though I was trying to match the Brembo caliper light gold colour on some cases...VHT gold is a lot darker....used the cast aluminium and then a light coat of gold on top while still wet....worked out quite well....maybe try a darker base coat then the aluminium?
I'm not so sure about the smell though....I bake mine in an old electric oven in the workshop....
i've often thought of things like that, but generally my ambition outweighs my talent and there's an inevitable redo.
 

unclerob

Been Around the Block
I have my fair share of paint mistakes too....sometimes they're quite interesting though....
 

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brad black

Been Around the Block
got my cases fully masked up, which certainly takes some time.

etch primed and primed the engine covers, then vht flat blacked them. very thin coating overall i think - stuff that didn't really appear uneven as beadblasted raw aluminium is visible now. i'll see if i can live with it. maybe i need to do a heap more primer coats. the painter next door says the issue with spray cans is it's all much thinner than he'd put on with a gun, so maybe i just need to pay him to do it.
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hoping i can find a mill to use, and when i do that the paint on the primary drive cover stays there when it's machined away. ducati always paint things then machine, so it's a look i'm used to and find it looks a bit odd otherwise. i might go the cover with the sawsall first to remove much of the redundant material to reduce the mill time and cutting effort.

took the gears to a gear maker to see if he can make me some 1 tooth different variants. he's going to cut some tests and we'll see if they look like they'll work. given i'm a pretty low demand client and he's busy pumping out volume stuff i might have to wait a little while. will be good if it works though.
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
just occurred to me that i have to get a roadworthy certificate on this even though it's going on a club permit (historic) and i might have an issue with the exposed clutch stuff. hmmmmmm. might need to talk to some people about that - it's pretty unique and to start off as all std i need a hydraulic set up with the slave on the left. pitfa for just getting it past. oh well. what needs must if it comes to that.
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
it's little casting flash and unevenness that was hardly noticeable before.

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probably won't notice it so much when it's on a bike, but it's getting that far that's the issue.
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
so it got too cold here to paint in my factory, and i took some gears to a gearcutter to see if he could make some +1 / -1 to vary ratios. so there's no chance of the engine going back together. but i did get the pistons back with 1mm deeper valve reliefs so i can try some different cams if i ever get it together.

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and now there's talk of the classic rego permit scheme going from 25 to 30 years of age, which means this pile of parts might have another 5 years.
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
over 6 months later, i actually touched it today. making use of the summer heat to get some paint on the cases. etch primed, then primed. used the whole can of primer, will need more for the head. it's a start.

i've forgotten which of the colours i bought i was going to use. i'll have to look at the receipts to find which one i bought last - nu cast alloy it is.

classic permit is staying at 25 years too, which is good.

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brad black

Been Around the Block
we'll see how it looks when it's got the silver on it. the paint guy in my block of factories told me to put a heap of coats of primer on so i could then rub it back to make it smooth, but that's so outside my attention span. paint is just not my thing.
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
i rang the gear man yesterday to see if he'd got anywhere with the gears, and he'd rough machined the blanks. he sent them to me to have a look at, but really i don't know wtf i'm looking at in terms of whether or not they'll cause any issues. the idea is to add a tooth to 1st driven and 6th driven and take a tooth off 2nd drive - that way it'll have a lower first, less of a gap between first and second and taller sixth. first and sixth are large enough, but the second gear drive side is only 18 teeth, and going down to 17 makes it a bit more extreme.
but they seem to be ok. i figure there's only one way to know, so might as well give it a whirl. i'll send them back with the shafts so they can do the final machining and then it's another step closer to getting it into one bit.

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crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
That looks REALLY expensive.
From what I've learned about gears over the years, looks like a modified developed tooth form?
Because you have fixed centres it isn't possible to add a tooth to one side without reducing count on the other meshing gear so it's doubtful any of the teeth are a standard profile (either DP or Module)
Probably with modern computer generated stuff it's way quicker and simpler than it was 20~30 years ago but cutters still need the generated profiles (although with CAD, CAM and CNC not such a major deal as it was)
In the last pic, a lower pressure angle of 30 degrees?
The important thing is the centre distanced between various shafts
 

brad black

Been Around the Block
depends what you call expensive i guess. he did quote me, but i've forgotten how much it was now, a few hundred each maybe. i don't really see it as that relevant. the cost is long forgotten when the result is right.

the gear man did explain it all to me, and he says some of the profiles are already heavily corrected - the little pinion gear is nowhere near a std form i think he was saying. but i trust he knows what he's doing, that's what he does.
 

teazer

Over 10,000 Posts
DTT BOTM WINNER
....Because you have fixed centres it isn't possible to add a tooth to one side without reducing count on the other meshing gear so it's doubtful any of the teeth are a standard profile (either DP or Module)
...
The important thing is the centre distanced between various shafts
While that is generally true, it is quite common to have different combined tooth counts across a shaft with variances of up to 3 teeth different. Let's say the combined totals is 52t, that means they can cut 51 or 53 as long as the diameters are close enough. On the GT750 Suzuki change one gear by 1 tooth and did not change the matching gear. It's a gear cutting trick that I would guess that Brad's guy knows how to do.

It's easy to end up with too much backlash or too little clearance, but a good gear guy should be able to make it work.

And yes, having gears machined or even repaired is not cheap for most of our budgets. On some bikes like the GS series Suzukis it's possible to swap gears in from different models or to mix and match gears on stock shafts but it still requires shafts and sometimes bearings have to be machined to make it work. For that Ducati I have no idea what the options are, but if anyone does it's Brad.
 

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