"the Mooch"

J-Rod10

Active Member
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Re: "the Mooch"

farmer92 said:
Exactly!
I raises the price of imported steel.
The raised cost of import steel lowers the demand for import steel. But the steel is still needed so domestic steel sees increased demand.
With increased demand comes increased prices. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.
This.

Demand is increased. Supply can't meet demand. Raise prices, make more money to build mills to meet increased demand.

If you keep the price the same, you can still only sell what you can make. So, in theory, you'd make no more money.
 

SONICJK

Reminds me of...me No, I'm sure of it. I hate him
Re: "the Mooch"

J-Rod10 said:
This.

Demand is increased. Supply can't meet demand. Raise prices, make more money to build mills to meet increased demand.

If you keep the price the same, you can still only sell what you can make. So, in theory, you'd make no more money.
That's assuming that you're at capacity. The whole point is the US has a steel industry that has shut down, not what we need to build steel mills.

There are certainly pluses and minuses on both sides, it's just my opinion that the costs outweigh the gains in this scenario. I don't see steel costs ever going back down (unless the tariffs are removed) so overall yes we have helped the steel industry grow in the US, but have severely impacted (hurt) every single manufacturer in the US that uses steel. And that's a MUCH larger pot then the ones making it. Just look at the effect it's already had on the economy as a whole. We won't even get into retaliation by china.

Luckily taxes went down significantly so for now maybe it's a wash. ???
 

1fasgsxr

New Member
2 steel mills have shut down within the last year or so in my area..I have many friends who lost their jobs or had to relocate to keep a job.
 

datadavid

New Member
Re: "the Mooch"

SONIC. said:
That's assuming that you're at capacity. The whole point is the US has a steel industry that has shut down, not what we need to build steel mills.

There are certainly pluses and minuses on both sides, it's just my opinion that the costs outweigh the gains in this scenario. I don't see steel costs ever going back down (unless the tariffs are removed) so overall yes we have helped the steel industry grow in the US, but have severely impacted (hurt) every single manufacturer in the US that uses steel. And that's a MUCH larger pot then the ones making it. Just look at the effect it's already had on the economy as a whole. We won't even get into retaliation by china.

Luckily taxes went down significantly so for now maybe it's a wash. ???
You still have some special steel alloys not being made anywhere else though. Our steel industry has also largely vanished and what is left focuses on research and special alloys. No point competing with the chinese in standard alloys maybe.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
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Re: "the Mooch"

datadavid said:
You still have some special steel alloys not being made anywhere else though. Our steel industry has also largely vanished and what is left focuses on research and special alloys. No point competing with the chinese in standard alloys maybe.
The problem is their steel is junk. Metallurgy is all over the map.
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
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There are factors that tariffs won't fix that no one is talking about, too. I worked for an aluminum smelter in Charleston, SC years ago. It was Alcoa then, but now it's Century. The Charleston plant runs at 50% capacity because they're operating in an uncompetitive market for electricity. Power is too expensive for them to operated at 100%. The tariffs will do nothing for that plant.
 

J-Rod10

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irk miller said:
There are factors that tariffs won't fix that no one is talking about, too. I worked for an aluminum smelter in Charleston, SC years ago. It was Alcoa then, but now it's Century. The Charleston plant runs at 50% capacity because they're operating in an uncompetitive market for electricity. Power is too expensive for them to operated at 100%. The tariffs will do nothing for that plant.
That needs to be renegotiated. The big guys here, get breaks on power, contingent on employee numbers being met.
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
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J-Rod10 said:
That needs to be renegotiated. The big guys here, get breaks on power, contingent on employee numbers being met.
When there is only one supplier of power, there's really no way to negotiate power. You need competition to get the better rate.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
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irk miller said:
When there is only one supplier of power, there's really no way to negotiate power. You need competition to get the better rate.
We only have one supplier here, but Tyson, Green Bay Packaging, International Paper etc get breaks. Tyson keeps 300,000sq.ft at -18°, and another 100,000sq.ft at 40°.
 

teazer

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And since making aluminum takes a whole lot of power, one might expect them to be able to negotiate for good rates. In Australia ALCOA are one of, if not the, biggest users of electricity and they did a deal with the government that basically said - you give us power cheap and we will employ lots of people and export stuff, and the gubba mint said yes.
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
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teazer said:
And since making aluminum takes a whole lot of power, one might expect them to be able to negotiate for good rates. In Australia ALCOA are one of, if not the, biggest users of electricity and they did a deal with the government that basically said - you give us power cheap and we will employ lots of people and export stuff, and the gubba mint said yes.
The issue is that Santee Cooper is owned by the state of South Carolina. Their claim is that if they give Century lower rates, cost of delivery will have to be subsidized by citizens. It's 25% of their power being brought in by Santee Cooper. There is significant issues happening in South Carolina right now, including a now defunct construction of VC Summer nuclear facility in Fairfield County that cost over $11 billion. Essentially, the state can't afford to negotiate rates and they're losing an aluminum smelter because of it.
 

teazer

Well-Known Member
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All good points and that is a balance that local officials have to grapple with. It's also a good reason to start talking about the way the grid works (or doesn't work). Why can't SC buy more power from another producer at lower cost?

The answer is probably complicated, and there are a few vastly expensive generating facilities around that are not very cost effective.
 

datadavid

New Member
Re: "the Mooch"

J-Rod10 said:
The problem is their steel is junk. Metallurgy is all over the map.
Yea, i would not want anything more advanced than rebars from their mills..
 

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