"the Mooch"

esmoojee

New Member
Why can’t they go to a port of entry like other immigrants that came here in the past to establish a better life? If they’re truly seeking sanctuary then there should be no problem going about it legally. Sneaking into someone else’s country seems suspect to me. They know they’re breaking our laws but they don’t care until they’re caught. There is very little respect for the law anymore. And I’m in agreement, if you’re unhappy with the laws then do something to help change them.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
Except that some of these immigrants may have legitimate claims for seeking asylum, which need to be heard. The "Zero tolerance" policy instigated by Sessions in April is what commenced immediate separation of children from parents with no consideration whatsoever as to the legitimacy of their claim for asylum.

Equating this as being similar to having the state take care of a child should a parent be arrested for a crime is false equivalency, and a bad example. That child would be remanded to relatives. That child's parent would be reunited with his/her child the next day if, for example, he/she spent the night in jail for DUI. The parent, if held longer, would be able to communicate with his/her child. The child would not be sent across the country, say from Texas to New York, without the parent knowing, and be held incommunicado.

It's difficult to get some people to agree that removing children from parents in this way is a violation of human rights -- some people seem to want to argue that migrants are less human in some way, and thus not deserving of basic human respect and dignity. Datadavid, will refer to them as pests or vermin, as Donald Trump does, disregarding the fact that he completely misconstrues what is happening in his native country, and avoids confronting facts.

The Southern United States had some great years in terms of their economy, prior to 1865, but it is difficult to ignore the conditions there when assessing the Southern economy. In the same way, as I keep bringing up but that nobody seems to want to engage, the level of fearmongering, lying, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, self-enriching, and swindling being done by this administration will not be ignored by history, and shouldn't be ignored now.
 

datadavid

New Member
carnivorous chicken said:
Except that some of these immigrants may have legitimate claims for seeking asylum, which need to be heard. The "Zero tolerance" policy instigated by Sessions in April is what commenced immediate separation of children from parents with no consideration whatsoever as to the legitimacy of their claim for asylum.

Equating this as being similar to having the state take care of a child should a parent be arrested for a crime is false equivalency, and a bad example. That child would be remanded to relatives. That child's parent would be reunited with his/her child the next day if, for example, he/she spent the night in jail for DUI. The parent, if held longer, would be able to communicate with his/her child. The child would not be sent across the country, say from Texas to New York, without the parent knowing, and be held incommunicado.

It's difficult to get some people to agree that removing children from parents in this way is a violation of human rights -- some people seem to want to argue that migrants are less human in some way, and thus not deserving of basic human respect and dignity. Datadavid, will refer to them as pests or vermin, as Donald Trump does, disregarding the fact that he completely misconstrues what is happening in his native country, and avoids confronting facts.

The Southern United States had some great years in terms of their economy, prior to 1865, but it is difficult to ignore the conditions there when assessing the Southern economy. In the same way, as I keep bringing up but that nobody seems to want to engage, the level of fearmongering, lying, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, self-enriching, and swindling being done by this administration will not be ignored by history, and shouldn't be ignored now.
You have no idea boy. No idea. We are being murdered and raped by your friends the migrants here, they are taking away our rights and possibilities to live peacefully in our own country, and criminalizing us for speaking out against mass migration. We have to either accept sharia law taking over sweden, or start fighting back.
It's all planned and orchestrated this way anyway, when we are fighting for our survival and the third world hordes are killing us for crumbs and iphones we are easy to rule.
And useful idiots like yourself have taken the side of the globalist murderers by advocating free mass migration and open borders. Essentially burping out their propaganda of "tolerance" and doing their job for them. If "tolerance" means extinction of europeans in favor of followers of Islam - then FUCK tolerance!!
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
carnivorous chicken said:
Except that some of these immigrants may have legitimate claims for seeking asylum, which need to be heard. The "Zero tolerance" policy instigated by Sessions in April is what commenced immediate separation of children from parents with no consideration whatsoever as to the legitimacy of their claim for asylum.

Equating this as being similar to having the state take care of a child should a parent be arrested for a crime is false equivalency, and a bad example. That child would be remanded to relatives. That child's parent would be reunited with his/her child the next day if, for example, he/she spent the night in jail for DUI. The parent, if held longer, would be able to communicate with his/her child. The child would not be sent across the country, say from Texas to New York, without the parent knowing, and be held incommunicado.

It's difficult to get some people to agree that removing children from parents in this way is a violation of human rights -- some people seem to want to argue that migrants are less human in some way, and thus not deserving of basic human respect and dignity. Datadavid, will refer to them as pests or vermin, as Donald Trump does, disregarding the fact that he completely misconstrues what is happening in his native country, and avoids confronting facts.

The Southern United States had some great years in terms of their economy, prior to 1865, but it is difficult to ignore the conditions there when assessing the Southern economy. In the same way, as I keep bringing up but that nobody seems to want to engage, the level of fearmongering, lying, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, self-enriching, and swindling being done by this administration will not be ignored by history, and shouldn't be ignored now.
Again, not a false equivalencly. These folks could have been reunited with their children as well, had they chose to leave the country.

You assume everyone has family, or even family that wants them. Many do not. They get shuffled around in foster care. If their parent can't make bail, and/or when found guilty and sentenced to time, they stay in foster care until that parent gets out and meets state guidelines to get them back. Such as a home, a job, etc.

But hey, it's cool, they're not illegal immigrants. We only get riled up over illegals getting separated for committing a crime.

Not to mention the time it takes to get documentation from another country showing that someone from another country is even related to someone here. You may remember the articles circulating a few months ago about the Obama admin handing kids over to human traffickers. Or, maybe you don't.

In event you don't. Here's an article on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9ff55deb353
 

sav0r

Member
J-Rod10 said:
Again, not a false equivalencly. These folks could have been reunited with their children as well, had they chose to leave the country.

You assume everyone has family, or even family that wants them. Many do not. They get shuffled around in foster care. If their parent can't make bail, and/or when found guilty and sentenced to time, they stay in foster care until that parent gets out and meets state guidelines to get them back. Such as a home, a job, etc.

But hey, it's cool, they're not illegal immigrants. We only get riled up over illegals getting separated for committing a crime.

Not to mention the time it takes to get documentation from another country showing that someone from another country is even related to someone here. You may remember the articles circulating a few months ago about the Obama admin handing kids over to human traffickers. Or, maybe you don't.

In event you don't. Here's an article on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9ff55deb353
So if you get a DUI or drug charge you can just leave the country and be reunited with your family?
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Sav0r said:
So if you get a DUI or drug charge you can just leave the country and be reunited with your family?
Nope. They had an out not afforded to citizens. The vast majority chose not to take it.
 

sav0r

Member
Of course not. Why? Because once detained you aren't given the option of leaving the country. You are placed in a legal system and from there good luck. There is no data to support your claim.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-does-immigration-court-work
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/us/politics/due-process-undocumented-immigrants.html

Good thing Trump ended "catch and release." Welcome to America, land of the free.

Also, a little presumptuous to say "many do not" want their children. Is there some data to back that up?

Finally, Obama isn't the president. Move on.
 

sav0r

Member
Never mind that by far the majority of illegal immigrants entered the country and overstayed their visa's. The fucking border and the bullshit narrative regarding people crossing over is the least of our problem, but here we are shitting in one hand and wishing in the other.

Trump's superlatives aren't working either.

https://scholarship.law.tamu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1743&context=facscholar
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/04/10/illegal-immigration-to-america-is-rising-again
https://cis.org/Arthur/Half-Illegal-Population-Are-Overstays
https://www.fairus.org/issue/legal-immigration/visa-overstayers
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-national-guard-immigration-20180410-story.html

We should build that wall 10ft higher...
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Sav0r said:
Of course not. Why? Because once detained you aren't given the option of leaving the country. You are placed in a legal system and from there good luck. There is no data to support your claim.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-does-immigration-court-work
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/us/politics/due-process-undocumented-immigrants.html

Good thing Trump ended "catch and release." Welcome to America, land of the free.

Also, a little presumptuous to say "many do not" want their children. Is there some data to back that up?

Finally, Obama isn't the president. Move on.
There's a foster system chock full of children to support it.

Yes, they were given the option to leave, with their children. One of 50 different articles on it that popped up on this thing called Google.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/
 

sav0r

Member
J-Rod10 said:
There's a foster system chock full of children to support it.

Yes, they were given the option to leave, with their children. One of 50 different articles on it that popped up on this thing called Google.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/
So what happened before Trump gave in to the negative press?

Under zero tolerance, immigration agents had been instructed to separate all children from parents caught crossing illegally. Trump reversed that decision with a June 20 executive order, but didn't provide a clear path toward reunification for more than 2,300 children who had already been separated.
 

sav0r

Member
Oh wow!

The form U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are directed to read to detained parents instructs them to sign next to one of two lines: "I am requesting to reunite with my child(ren) for the purpose of repatriation to my country of citizenship," or "I am affirmatively, knowingly, and voluntarily requesting to return to my country of citizenship without my minor child(ren) who I understand will remain in the United States to pursue available claims of relief."

The agents are instructed to read the form in a language the immigrant understands, which usually means Spanish, but it can be hard to find Americans who know the indigenous languages spoken by many migrants.
So impressive.
 

sav0r

Member
J-Rod10 said:
There's a foster system chock full of children to support it.

Yes, they were given the option to leave, with their children. One of 50 different articles on it that popped up on this thing called Google.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/
That's your claim, not mine. The article you linked to says nothing about families not wanting their children.

Some of the proposals, like raising the bar for passing the initial interview for claiming asylum, have already been implemented. Other policies, like detaining "almost everyone coming over," have run into logistical difficulties.
NBC News has found that some women are separated from their children even if they are legally claiming asylum and not being referred for prosecution. In those cases, the children are kept in the same facility, but they are still separated for days without being told whether they will be reunited.
Your link, not mine.

There is no evidence to date that the new policy has deterred families from crossing between points of entry. The monthly totals decreased from 9,653 in April to 9,485 in May, the month the policy was enacted.
Sure we are ruining families, but the evidence shows it's effective, at least in terror.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-15/trump-is-deporting-fewer-immigrants-than-obama-did

I asked Leopold why Obama's peak years of enforcement hadn't spread as much fear or more — given the higher rates of arrest and deportation.

"Even during the worst days of the Obama crackdown," he said, "ICE used its discretion and applied common sense." Today, he said, the agency refuses to use either, while seeming to revel in "tearing apart families."
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
Trump, Sessions, and the GOP leadership first defended the forced separation of children from their parents, then argued it wasn't their fault it was Obama's, then finally accepted that it was a bad policy but chiefly because it "didn't look good" or was "bad optics" to have photographs and video and reports of children in cages. A federal judge had to order them to reunite parents and children, and although there has been progress they missed the deadline for many people.

Some people seem to be stuck at stage 1 or 2 of the three steps Trump and GOP leadership have taken. Step 3 doesn't go far enough. For some reason it remains difficult to get people to unequivocally state that removing children from their parents in this was is a violation of human rights and dignity. There are already reports of reunified families with children that bear deep psychological scars from this policy that may affect them throughout their lives.

Since nobody wants to talk about racism (except for DD wearing it on his sleeve), I'll just leave this here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/opinion/inside-the-world-of-racist-science-fiction.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

"It is unlikely that Mr. Trump has read any of these books. But members of his staff undoubtedly have. His former aide Steve Bannon is a fan of “The Camp of the Saints” and refers to it often — in knowing, offhand ways that betray both his familiarity with racist literature and his awareness of his target audience’s reading habits... The point is not that there is a direct line between, say, “The Turner Diaries” and the Oval Office. Rather, it’s that the tropes that define the Trump administration’s rhetoric and policies — apocalyptic xenophobia, anti-Semitic conspiracies, racist fear-mongering — are also the tropes that define white-supremacist literature. To the hundreds of thousands of fans of Mr. Kendall, Ms. Williams and other writers, Mr. Trump must seem like a character out of racist central casting: a rule-breaking white knight who will stop at nothing to root out the conspiracies and take on their race’s enemies. No wonder the bond between Mr. Trump and the far right is so strong: Not only is he a hero out of their novels, but in supporting him, they have become heroes themselves."
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Nice opinion piece.

I used to read a ton of books with stories based in the lead up to, and during the Civil War. I assume that now falls under "racist literature" and by default, makes me racist, according to that guy.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
Nice opinion piece.

I used to read a ton of books with stories based in the lead up to, and during the Civil War. I assume that now falls under "racist literature" and by default, makes me racist, according to that guy.
I don't think you understand the article or are misreading it; I'm not sure how you would come to that conclusion, conflating stories that are about the antebellum South with those that actively promote racism in futuristic science fiction. Why not say "that's kind of fucked up that Steve Bannon, who advised Trump, would be a fan of that shit"? It shouldn't be hard to do.

By the way, the Washington Post reported yesterday that US intelligence agencies verified through satellite imagery that NK is currently building two new ICBMs. Of course if you believe Trump, the US intelligence agencies are out to destroy America and everything that is good with the world, the Washington Post is fake news, and Kim Jong Un is our friend, but that's your decision to make.
 

sav0r

Member
Mike Pompeo was on the record a week ago saying that NK was making new nuclear fissile material. I.e. the kind of nuclear material primarily used in bombs.

It's a shame the Trump didn't send Rodman to negotiate the deal, perhaps Dennis could have gotten something binding.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Speaking of futuristic Sci-Fi thrillers; If you have Netflix, check out their new original movie Extinction. Basically about genocide. Pretty good movie.
 

sav0r

Member
I watched Annihlation the other day, it was pretty a decent Sci Fi thriller. I'll check Extinction out.
 

sav0r

Member
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/major-u-s-steel-expansion-touted-by-trump-not-happening/

Trump says 6 new plants are getting started, U.S. Steel says they aren't aware of that.

The outlook is tricky.

While doubtful of the longer-term picture for U.S. Steel, Bradford does expect it and its competitors to soon report robust quarterly results, thanks in large part to the price of steel rising 40 percent during the past six months.

Tariffs and the rise in steel prices are hurting business for American manufacturers who take the raw material and turn it into products such as pipes or nails-- some are pausing expansion plans, while others have been forced to lay off workers.

Manufacturers and end users make up a much larger portion of the economy. That means tariffs on raw materials, combined with retaliation from angry trading partners, may end up causing more harm than good. An estimate from consulting firm Trade Partnership forecast about 400,000 U.S. jobs lost versus 26,000 created as a result of the metal tariffs.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
"An estimate from consulting firm Trade Partnership forecast about 400,000 U.S. jobs lost versus 26,000 created as a result of the metal tariffs."

Says it all. House of cards.
 

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