"the Mooch"

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
I think we may have varying definitions of "civil."

An investigation dragged on for ages.

One party is actively encouraging its followers to harass the other party and its followers in public.
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
DTT BOTM WINNER
J-Rod10 said:
One party is actively encouraging its followers to harass the other party and its followers in public.
I'm pretty sure they've both done this, but I question if this has been sanctioned by the parties or if it's actions by supporters within those parties. I would also be reluctant to label protests as harassment, no matter where it's coming from.
 

sav0r

Member
J-Rod10 said:
I think we may have varying definitions of "civil."

An investigation dragged on for ages.

One party is actively encouraging its followers to harass the other party and its followers in public.
Derp. What office does Hillary hold? Man the butt hurt over Kavanaugh receiving some negligible resistance just continues to grow.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
I think we may have varying definitions of "civil."

An investigation dragged on for ages.

One party is actively encouraging its followers to harass the other party and its followers in public.
You mean the Kavanaugh investigation that ignored 40 people's testimonies and lasted less than a week? Or the 2.5-year Benghazi investigation that turned up no criminal wrongdoing?

Both sides have harassed the other, but only the leader of one party has encouraged violence and extrajudicial justice for his opponents. You guessed it -- DJT!
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
I guess Maxine Waters said it in off the cuff remarks -- not sanctioned by the Democratic Party as you seem to imply -- after being harassed by Trump, although if you read the story other more senior dems condemned the practice. But it was occuring before Waters' statement.

But I guess as usual you don't want to acknowledge anything like these:

https://www.ajc.com/news/national-govt--politics/trump-words-show-that-yes-has-encouraged-violence/7sIekwrBayVArwRRmZf6HI/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/back-trump-comments-perceived-encouraging-violence/story?id=48415766

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-pacific-heart/201810/psychological-violence-and-propaganda-the-white-house

https://newrepublic.com/minutes/128896/beat-protester-trumps-rally-hell-cover-legal-fees

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/28/donald-trump-midterms-private-meeting-church-antifa

So you have a Dem Rep saying it's ok to confront Republicans in public, and you have the leader of the Rep party and president saying it's OK to use physical violence against protestors and others.

Hmmm...
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Do you read most of the links you post?

He went on: “They will overturn everything that we’ve done and they’ll do it quickly and violently. And violently. There’s violence. When you look at antifa, and you look at some of these groups, these are violent people.”

Naturally, the headline implies Trump insinuated there would be violence against the Dems.

November 2015. At a rally in Alabama, Trump said about a protester, “Get him the hell out of here, will you, please? Get him out of here. Throw him out!” The following day, calling into Fox News, Trump responded to a question about allegations that the protester had been “roughed up.” The protester, Trump said, had been “so obnoxious and so loud … maybe he should have been roughed up. Maybe he should have been roughed up. Because it was totally disgusting what he was doing.”

• March 2016. At an event in Palm Beach, Fla., Trump referred to a past incident with protesters. “We have had a couple that were really violent, and the particular one when I said I’d like to bang him, that was a very — he was a guy who was swinging, very loud and then started swinging at the audience and the audience swung back, and I thought it was very, very appropriate. He was swinging, he was hitting people, and the audience hit back, and that’s what we need a little bit more of.”

One, he tells security to get a guy out, the other a guy is hitting folks, and folks hit back.

This is "inciting violence" to the left? Maybe the left is softer than I thought.
 

sav0r

Member
I think there are good people on both sides, unless you are defending White Nationalists, one of which murdered a person.
 

sav0r

Member
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-incitement-violence/

There's like 6 examples where Trump, old dusty himself, incited violence.

Let's be clear though, there is nothing illegal about heckling, not in and of itself. So I'm not sure why conservatives are even whining. It's basic free speech.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
Do you read most of the links you post?
Forgive me, but you are simply back to equivocating. The president told people at rallies to rough people up. Some of them did. Some have been charged with crimes. Antifa stands for anti-fascist. If you want to condemn violence against nazis, perhaps you should send a note to the remaining WWII vets and let them know it was a terrible thing they did. Trump seems to think choosing the side of white supremacists is choosing the right side. And remember, not all of Trump's supporters are racist, but if you support him you are OK with someone who supports racism (and all of the other bigotry).

How about this for a link between Trump rallies and violence? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/16/us/trump-rally-violence.html

I'm sure you're aware of the white guy who decked suckerpunched a black guy at a Trump rally. Where do you think he got the idea? Maybe because the guy giving the speech said it was ok and that he'd pay legal fees? And after the fact, Trump was actually thinking about paying his legal fees.

J-Rod10 said:
This is "inciting violence" to the left? Maybe the left is softer than I thought.
Seriously? You have been one of the few right wingers here to generally engage in discussions such as this without resorting to racism and getting banned, or just complete bluster. But you are fooling yourself if you think the last two years have been anything but ordinary. You're also fooling yourself if you think that since the economy is doing fine everything else should get a pass (which you have argued in the past). You're also fooling yourself if you think the Democrats are inciting violence and the Republicans are not. Repeatedly in this thread I've conceded things that are more open to interpretation and admitted I was wrong. How about just saying something like "yes, Donald Trump has incited violence at his rallies, called for extrajudicial imprisonment of his political enemies, and called the press the enemy of the state" instead of constantly replying with whataboutisms and equivocations? Impossible? Don't believe they're true? Believe that the press is the enemy of the people?
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
I believe the press, as a whole, bends and twists things to fit their agenda.

I believe they rush to make something front page news as quickly as possible, regardless of the validity of it so they can be the one to break it. If they're wrong, so what, they'll spend 15 seconds saying they were wrong next week.

Antifa, they're not fighting Nazi's. The current group who calls them self "antifa" are a bunch of thugs who mask their identity to go commit violent acts. They sucker punch people, and run away. Or, 4-5+ of them get a hold of one person and go to town.

Personally, I don't get why folks are still harping on the lock her up bit towards Hillary.

If it was a regular person that did what she did, they'd be locked up. "She didn't intend to commit a crime" was the word on that. Someone who falls asleep at the wheel and kills someone didn't intend to kill someone, but they're still going to catch a manslaughter charge. Ole girl that shot her boyfriend in a bulletproof vest for YouTube views didn't intend to kill him, but she's sure as shit headed to prison over it.

On another note, I have not, and will not delve into racist remarks. That's not me. That's now how I think.


As for Savor's remarks. Heckling someone is one thing. Harassing them is another, and is quite illegal.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
I believe the press, as a whole, bends and twists things to fit their agenda.

I believe they rush to make something front page news as quickly as possible, regardless of the validity of it so they can be the one to break it. If they're wrong, so what, they'll spend 15 seconds saying they were wrong next week.

Antifa, they're not fighting Nazi's. The current group who calls them self "antifa" are a bunch of thugs who mask their identity to go commit violent acts. They sucker punch people, and run away. Or, 4-5+ of them get a hold of one person and go to town.

Personally, I don't get why folks are still harping on the lock her up bit towards Hillary.

If it was a regular person that did what she did, they'd be locked up. "She didn't intend to commit a crime" was the word on that. Someone who falls asleep at the wheel and kills someone didn't intend to kill someone, but they're still going to catch a manslaughter charge. Ole girl that shot her boyfriend in a bulletproof vest for YouTube views didn't intend to kill him, but she's sure as shit headed to prison over it.

On another note, I have not, and will not delve into racist remarks. That's not me. That's now how I think.


As for Savor's remarks. Heckling someone is one thing. Harassing them is another, and is quite illegal.
You know why folks are harping on the lock her up bit? Because Trump continues to goad them at his rallies, and has done so for two years or more. You don't understand it -- but you're willing to continue to say she deserves to be locked up, despite not being found having committed a crime (except, perhaps, in your and others' opinions?). OK...

Wait -- do you think that antifa violence isn't a reaction to the far right, nazis and racists, and they just go around punching peace loving people? Perhaps you think the nazis are just peacefully demontrating and chanting their harmless slogans (such as "Jews will not replace us") and those darn antifa troublemakers turned everything into a shitshow by running a bunch of people over and killing one. Oh shit, that wasn't the antifa people. And I thought
J-Rod10 said:
the left is softer than I thought.
Glad you're not going to "delve into" racist remarks. How about condemning the president's racist remarks? A step too far?

Equivocate -- the name of the game apparently.
 

teazer

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Are we still talking about the same DJT that Australian authorities refused to grant a casino license because of his links to organized crime? The one who claims that he alone has brought down insurance premiums while simultaneously trying to get rid of the ACA and coverage for existing conditions?

Yes a few protesting women made some noise at Kavanaugh hearings because he lied about his past and the majority party refused to release the majority of his documented work record. More importantly they made some noise because that same majority party rallied to support a white man of money and ridiculed the women who accused him of wrongdoing.

Do we think that their voices should not be heard? Do we think it's OK to protect men and to not protect women? That was not a court of law where evidence of wrongdoing had to be proven beyond reasonable doubt and of course he has a right to tell state his side of the story, but the hast which the majority party and administration rushed through the "investigation" and swearing in were disgusting partisan politics and nothing more.

And the way that DJT and his sycophant supporters claim that some sort of radical left wing socialist conspiracy is going to take away medicare and raise insurance rates and so on is just devoid of reality.

Much more important than all that noise though is that a Republican Congress and White House will absolutely slash all social programs if they retain control after November. Medicare, medicaid and Social Security plus food stamps and other support programs will be slashed to keep the deficit from exploding as it is doing after the tax cuts. And let us not forget that tariffs on imported goods are a direct and indirect tax on all Americans of any party affiliation. They amount to a broad based tax of around $25 billion on all consumers.

And what happened to all those good paying American jobs that are coming back? Well the tax breaks have largely paid for stock buy backs and the steel industry has raised prices but refuse to negotiate with unions over pay raises, so that's more money for industry owners and investors.
 

sav0r

Member
J-Rod10 said:
I believe the press, as a whole, bends and twists things to fit their agenda.

I believe they rush to make something front page news as quickly as possible, regardless of the validity of it so they can be the one to break it. If they're wrong, so what, they'll spend 15 seconds saying they were wrong next week.

Antifa, they're not fighting Nazi's. The current group who calls them self "antifa" are a bunch of thugs who mask their identity to go commit violent acts. They sucker punch people, and run away. Or, 4-5+ of them get a hold of one person and go to town.

Personally, I don't get why folks are still harping on the lock her up bit towards Hillary.

If it was a regular person that did what she did, they'd be locked up. "She didn't intend to commit a crime" was the word on that. Someone who falls asleep at the wheel and kills someone didn't intend to kill someone, but they're still going to catch a manslaughter charge. Ole girl that shot her boyfriend in a bulletproof vest for YouTube views didn't intend to kill him, but she's sure as shit headed to prison over it.

On another note, I have not, and will not delve into racist remarks. That's not me. That's now how I think.


As for Savor's remarks. Heckling someone is one thing. Harassing them is another, and is quite illegal.

There isn’t any evidence of harassing. Whining doesn’t count. There needs to be police reports and official filing. Why should anybody be concerned with the delicate sensibilities of Sarah Sanders? She has the audacity to lie squarely to the faces of the American people, she deserves some heckling. Just as it would have been in the Agora, a creation of our true founders.
 

sav0r

Member
teazer said:
Are we still talking about the same DJT that Australian authorities refused to grant a casino license because of his links to organized crime? The one who claims that he alone has brought down insurance premiums while simultaneously trying to get rid of the ACA and coverage for existing conditions?

Yes a few protesting women made some noise at Kavanaugh hearings because he lied about his past and the majority party refused to release the majority of his documented work record. More importantly they made some noise because that same majority party rallied to support a white man of money and ridiculed the women who accused him of wrongdoing.

Do we think that their voices should not be heard? Do we think it's OK to protect men and to not protect women? That was not a court of law where evidence of wrongdoing had to be proven beyond reasonable doubt and of course he has a right to tell state his side of the story, but the hast which the majority party and administration rushed through the "investigation" and swearing in were disgusting partisan politics and nothing more.

And the way that DJT and his sycophant supporters claim that some sort of radical left wing socialist conspiracy is going to take away medicare and raise insurance rates and so on is just devoid of reality.

Much more important than all that noise though is that a Republican Congress and White House will absolutely slash all social programs if they retain control after November. Medicare, medicaid and Social Security plus food stamps and other support programs will be slashed to keep the deficit from exploding as it is doing after the tax cuts. And let us not forget that tariffs on imported goods are a direct and indirect tax on all Americans of any party affiliation. They amount to a broad based tax of around $25 billion on all consumers.

And what happened to all those good paying American jobs that are coming back? Well the tax breaks have largely paid for stock buy backs and the steel industry has raised prices but refuse to negotiate with unions over pay raises, so that's more money for industry owners and investors.
J rod has money in the markets and is willing to ignore the social losses while he gains financially.
 

teazer

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
I don't know J-rod but I believe he is sincere but his beliefs may be different and that's OK. We all come from different backgrounds and have different life experiences and watch different TV channels. Probably all have different friends that reinforce what we already believe.

It is really easy to get really wound up about a lot of this stuff and to repeat things we heard on the TV without challenging those things. We all tend to do it and it's always good to hear other perspectives and to listen to them rather than just dismissing them out of hand.

One significant change on politics isn't that Trump is the first politician in history to lie or to embellish the truth. He has a knack of saying things that are both untrue and designed to stoke fear and loathing and that is NOT in the job description. But that's who he is. He thinks that winning is about destroying the opponent and never having to find ways to work out a compromise that is more effective. In that, he is right and dead wrong and now what the US or the world needs if we plan on making any sort of progress.

Simple example of distorted logic. Trump announces relaxations of epa rules on fuel economy and emissions and thinks he will benefit from those changes and America will be able to consume more fossil fuels and sell our autos overseas. Cars that don't meet Euro 'x' rules can't be sold in Europe. Period. And cars that are too large to fit on Japanese or Chinese streets are never going to sell well. We cannot move backwards unless we want to see the rest of the world leave us behind.

The US market is large and 70% or more is consumer consumption. We do make some things but not a lot that anyone else wants or can afford. We need to be looking forwards to new technologies that we can play a leading role in. No one is going to make coal powered steam driven cars any time soon.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
teazer said:
One significant change on politics isn't that Trump is the first politician in history to lie or to embellish the truth.
Let's be honest here if we're talking about lying: his lying is absolutely unprecedented in its scope and volume (unpresidented?).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html

That graph is almost a year old, but the pattern has continued. He makes shit up out of thin air and gets caught in lies like no other.
 
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