"the Mooch"

teazer

Well-Known Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Fair comment J-Rod.
But I have to say that I'm not buying the left wing conspiracy theory that's being floated. It is quite possible that it was a left leaning nut job rather than someone taking cues from the Liar in Chief, but it seems more likely to be a follower of Trump.

Did I hear someone suggest that it was a conspiracy to make it look like it came from Trump so that the left could be blamed for a false flag operation as a way to generate more anger on the right to get republican voters enraged and out to vote?

But we'll know when we know.

More to the point, Trump is enabling bad behavior because he sees that enraged people get passionate about voting their people into power. It's a fear driven narrative that Dubbya used to a lesser extent and fear is a strong motivator that Republicans have weaponized quite effectively.

Not once have I heard Trump appeal to our better natures to rise above the noise to be a better version of who we are as a nation. That's not his thing. It's not who he is. Unfortunately it's one of the more important aspects of the job description of any leader.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
I'll hold off on commenting on this until someone is apprehended for it.
You mean until someone is apprehended for using unsecured cell phones that we know are being tapped and revealing information that is being used to cozy up to the American president? Oh, you mean the bombs thing.

Yeah -- Fox is already going into conspiracy theory mode, as are plenty of others on the right. That's not surprising. It used to be that "false flag" conspiracy theorizing was for the fringe, now it's a mainstream right wing policy position. I did some work on the Boston Marathon bombing and was in Boston just after it. There was a nutcase in Harvard Square ranting about it being a "false flag" operation. I was just walking by, but he almost got his ass handed to him by one or two other passersby and if he stayed there much longer spouting that bullshit he wouldn't last long.

More bombs found -- sent to Biden and De Niro.

Whoever sent those packages is clearly unhinged, but there is no denying that the environment created by Trump has enabled this. To deny it is to deny reality.

** I should add: today Trump tweeted, and blamed the media:

"A very big part of the Anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the Mainstream Media that I refer to as Fake News. It has gotten so bad and hateful that it is beyond description. Mainstream Media must clean up its act, FAST!"
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
The media holds some blame, IMO.

They relentlessly play sound bites, video clips, etc of members of the government, past and present, saying the time for civility is over, harass people that don't agree with you, etc.

The media has been weaponized, for both sides of the aisle.

I hadn't heard about ricin being sent to politicians on the right until yesterday, apparently three weeks after it happened.

The media shares what it wants, in the context it wants, not simply the news.


The New York Times published a fantasy piece yesterday about Trump being assassinated by a Russian and a secret service agent.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
The media holds some blame, IMO.

They relentlessly play sound bites, video clips, etc of members of the government, past and present, saying the time for civility is over, harass people that don't agree with you, etc.
Wait -- the media are reporting what politicians are saying? And they are somehow to blame for that?

It's fantasy to say that some of the stuff people like Waters have said about being incivil is anything but a reaction to the incivility enouraged by the right following Trump -- why weren't they making these statements years before?

And let's be honest -- nobody was sent ricin. Plus I thought Jim Mattis was a democrat?

A British spy novelist writes a scenario that reveals Trump to be a Russian agent, in the book review section of the NYT, with four other spy novelists, that isn't all that far fetched in terms of premise. Not in very good taste, obviously, but nowhere near the same sort of thing as advocating violence.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
J-Rod10 said:
Did you read the article you posted? He sent powder from castor beans, not ricin. Ricin comes from castor beans, but powder from castor beans isn't ricin.

The fact that you didn't hear about it until yesterday is a little surprising; the NYT reported it Oct 2, and reported the arrest Oct 3. They reported his indictment October 18. Perhaps you need better news sources.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
The NYT, do they have a tv channel that blasts all the other nonsense all day and night? Or, was it a few sentences at the bottom of page six?
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
More bombs found, more democrats targeted. More conspiracy theories from the right.

Worth a read: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/opinion/bombs-democrats-trump-republicans-civility.html

Goldberg discusses the difference between current left and right wing violence, and the institutionalization of the latter.

While the US is essentially under a terrorist attack, the president gives speeches and sends tweets that continue to vilify and demonize the free press and democrats. Class act.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
With the amount of cameras out there these days, they should be able to locate who is doing this in a day or two.

Then we can put all these conspiracy theories to rest.

There is no doubt, though, whoever is doing it is committing acts of terrorism.
 

sav0r

Member
I was predicting Saturday at the latest. If it turns out that they got the right person, I have to give it to them, damn they are good. Of course as Chicken points out, they have all the tools these days.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
"Mr. Sayoc, a registered Republican, has a lengthy criminal history in Florida dating back to 1991 that includes felony theft, drug and fraud charges, as well as being arrested and accused of threatening to use a bomb, public records show."

So we can put to rest the "false flag" narrative championed by the right. In fact it appears the only conspiracies here were the ones harbored by the perpetrator, including stickers all over his van -- pro-Trump, anti-CNN. Do there remain any doubts that thie person was influenced by violent rhetoric? Yes, he's obviously a sociopath...

Ever willing to make it about him, Trump is worried that this "bomb" stuff will hurt Republicans in the elections. Perhaps it should.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
Devastating and tragic. But not unbelievable. 300 miles away last year people were chanting "Jews will not replace us." But there were good people on both sides, apparently.

Trump has suggested that some Jews might be responsible, apparently floating a false flag conspiracy of his own.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Re: "the Mooch"

Make sure you get out and vote, folks!


Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
Interesting scenario coming up if Trump signs an EO declaring birthright citizenship is no longer legal for children of illegal immigrants.

It'll be declared unconstitutional immediately by a Circuit Court.

Then it'll head to the Supreme Court, bypassing Congress ( who have done nothing in the way of immigration for decades) entirely.
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
"Interesting" indeed. Unconstitutional, indeed. The president also has blatantly lied about this, for example that other countries don't have birthright citizenship. And the right as been stoking anti-immigrant fervor with blatant lies as well, as well as the impact of birthright citizenship.

Fortunately the Supreme Court can't simply void a Constitutional Amendment like this, and it will require congressional action. The Supreme's job is to uphold and sometimes interpret the Constitution, and the 14th Amendment, designed to define citizenship in the context of states denying citizenship to freed slaves, is pretty clear.

If Trump was smart and desired anything more substantive than his followers' adulation, he wouldn't waste everyone's time with an executive order that will simply fail. If he can nullify a Constitutional Amendment with an executive order, which Amendement is next?

Another "interesting" fact: immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, commit fewer crimes. There are no people of Middle Eastern descent in the caravan from Honduras despite Trump asserting the opposite, and if there were, so what? Does that automatically make them terrorists? The premises for which this administration is attempting to act on immigration are bogus. People have a right to apply for asylum in the US, which is what these people are intending to do. US policy toward the Honduras hasn't helped the situation in the Honduras. Racist dog whistles have become overt racism, and shamefully many people in the US applaud.
 

J-Rod10

Active Member
DTT BOTM WINNER
That's the point, to have them rule on the intent of the Amendment in regards to illegal immigration.

Much like the 2nd Amendment doesn't give you, or me, the right to own a rocket launcher to "protect myself."

They don't have to change the Amendment, just set precedence on its meaning in regards to illegal immigration.
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
DTT BOTM WINNER
No, the point is to limit the amount of seats lost in the House and the Senate, or even prevent a Democratic takeover in either.
 

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