art or shit?

[Hoofhearted]

Is this art? I used to play with an airbrush many years ago. I would see a photo of a bike in action and "paint" my version of it. I don't know if it would qualify as "art" but I'd put it way ahead of a porcelain urinal.

[/img]

 

[lockard666]

nope, never seen ths bull until i just googled it... cool... this is funny, before i read your last post, i edited my last post, crediting the original designer of the urinal as an artist... i might be starting to get it... well, maybe not, the bike on chains is still shit.

 

[lockard666]

damn hoof!... that is great!

 

[emcarthu]

Is this art? I used to play with an airbrush many years ago. I would see a photo of a bike in action and "paint" my version of it. I don't know if it would qualify as "art" but I'd put it way ahead of a porcelain urinal.

[/img]

well, that's were personal preference comes into play i guess.
while yours took an incredible amount of artistic skill (and I mean A LOT)
some would argue it took an incredible amount of artistic skill from Duchampe to choose that urinal.
we can all say "big deal" but untill we think of it first...

that being said. I would much rather look at your piece as well.
that is some serious airbrushing! looks like a photo.
I've always wanted to try that. airbrushing that is... i'll leave knee dragging to the pros.

 

[Redbird]

...we can now look at it in a new context and see line, shape, form, elements we think about in sculpture.
we have to remember, someone "designed" this urinal they perhaps took these things into consideration.

Ok, without trying to open a whole new can of worms...
I don't see that as Art either. He took somebody elses design and product, slapped his name on it, and called it Art? Sounds more like Plagiarism.

 

[emcarthu]

Ok, without trying to open a whole new can of worms...
I don't see that as Art either. He took somebody elses design and product, slapped his name on it, and called it Art? Sounds more like Plagiarism.

well, basically that is what he did.
but it was his intent to plagiarize, he wasn't re-branding it as "look at what i made" but, "look what this is" the idea is what makes it art and in an age where there were few who thought the same. it was radical and brilliant!
not to say all radical ideas are brilliant.
they way you might see a scrap piece of metal as an opportunity most see as junk.
I've seen a lot of bike parts on the wall in people's garages cause they just like the design and form of it.
we can think like this now and see beauty in design partly because of Duchampe.

it was an incredible thought!

 

[Hoofhearted]

I worked in plant maintenance for years and I can assure you there is nothing artistic about a urinal. Particularly when they clogged, full of piss and have to be pulled off the wall to be cleared out.

I would argue the point that it took a lot of artistic skill to pick up a urinal, sign it and call it art. I would also argue it was done for a lark (or to be confrontational to the art establishment of the times) and someone took it serious.

 

[emcarthu]

nope, never seen ths bull until i just googled it... cool... this is funny, before i read your last post, i edited my last post, crediting the original designer of the urinal as an artist... i might be starting to get it... well, maybe not, the bike on chains is still shit.

LOL
how could you not think that was cool!?!
IT WAS A BIKE CHAINED UP GOING CRAZY!!! LOL

i guess were just gonna have to disagree on the bike...

 

[Redbird]

but it was his intent to plagiarize, he wasn't re-branding it as "look at what i made" but, "look what this is"

Then why'd he put his name on it?

I've seen a lot of bike parts on the wall in people's garages cause they just like the design and form of it.

I've done this as well. Except I was able to enjoy the beauty and design without ever hearing of Duchampe.

 

[emcarthu]

I worked in plant maintenance for years and I can assure you there is nothing artistic about a urinal. Particularly when they clogged, full of piss and have to be pulled off the wall to be cleared out.

someone will find beauty in it, if not the zombie corpse of Duchampe himself.
the same way only some will find beauty in that rusted out BSA found in an old barn.

I would argue the point that it took a lot of artistic skill to pick up a urinal, sign it and call it art. I would also argue it was done for a lark (or to be confrontational to the art establishment of the times) and someone took it serious.

as i said before the skill isn't in writing his name on it. it's the concept, which is well documented through correspondence and was not a lark.

 

[VonYinzer]

That wasnt actually directed just at you. My internet "raging" was only based on the fact that this conversation seemingly was becoming less of a discussion and more of an argument. I dont downplay your schooling, nor do I downplay your right as an educated person to share your opinion. What I do take issue with is arrogance. Im sure youre a good dude. I dont know you, so I have no reason to believe otherwise. That said, in this thread, you are really coming across as pompous. I dont know about you, but when Im talked down to by ANYONE, I take offence. Especially when its in the course of a discussion, based soley on opinion. Sorry to have upset you, but when I see people being talked to like theyre stupid, and I know for a fact that they are not... I am going to chime in.

 

[emcarthu]

Then why'd he put his name on it?

cause it was his idea! you can't really sign a concept. he had to put it somewhere

I've done this as well. Except I was able to enjoy the beauty and design without ever hearing of Duchampe.

that's because it's second nature to think like that now. we see it everywhere in magazines on TV in real life
someone would have thought of it sooner or later.
but he was the first.

 

[emcarthu]

That wasnt actually directed just at you. My internet "raging" was only based on the fact that this conversation seemingly was becoming less of a discussion and more of an argument. I dont downplay your schooling, nor do I downplay your right as an educated person to share your opinion. What I do take issue with is arrogance. Im sure youre a good dude. I dont know you, so I have no reason to believe otherwise. That said, in this thread, you are really coming across as pompous. I dont know about you, but when Im talked down to by ANYONE, I take offence. Especially when its in the course of a discussion, based soley on opinion. Sorry to have upset you, but when I see people being talked to like theyre stupid, and I know for a fact that they are not... I am going to chime in.

I've been told I'm a good Dude and also been told I'm a poor writer, and when you're writing things on your phone and quickly, sometimes they just don't come out exactly as intended. this is obviously something I'm passionate about and never meant to talk down to anyone. for some reason you implied i called some one narrow minded, when i said they had a narrow view of art, which I'll stand behind. I've seen some narrow views of what a cafe racer is. it's just a narrow view. not a broad view, but a narrow one. I wouldn't call them narrow minded, nor any one else. I don't think I referred to anyones opinions as "Lots of arrogance and holier than though bullshit" with online anonymity comes responsibility. I'm not a hard ass in real life so I'm not gonna act like one here.


that being said there are a lot of misconceptions in art, and if i can discuss it here I'd like to. I have no animosity towards any one who doesn't like the original video. art's a very broad thing. throw it all in there and then decide weather it's good or not.
and i like respondeing to redbird, hoofhearted, and lockard, it exercises my brain muscle!

btw. this was all an online performance art piece orchestrated by me and original poster scm. JK lol.

 

[Redbird]

that's because it's second nature to think like that now.

I should also clarify that at no time did I sign my name on them, nor did I call these objects hanging on the wall of my garage "Art".

the way you might see a scrap piece of metal as an opportunity most see as junk.

So you're saying what the Scrap Metal actually is or becomes, is subjective? Due to the individuals opinion of it?
If that's the case then I'll concede that Hubie made a Video. Some see it as an Opportunity, I see it as Junk.

 

[Redbird]

Kind of a side note...
I did take mild offense to the "your narrow point of view is irrelevant" comment. To me it smacked of 'I know more than you, so you're opinion doesn't matter'.
If you say that wasn't the intent, I'll give you benefit of the doubt. You're right, context and tone is sometimes lost in forum posts.
And for the record, I love a good discussion as well

 

[emcarthu]

I should also clarify that at no time did I sign my name on them, nor did I call these objects hanging on the wall of my garage "Art".
So you're saying what the Scrap Metal actually is or becomes, is subjective? Due to the individuals opinion of it?
If that's the case then I'll concede that Hubie made a Video. Some see it as an Opportunity, I see it as Junk.

I'm just saying calling something art doesn't immediately concede that it is on some greater level.
you can still call this shit and art at the same time.
there is a shitty art category.

i guess we are just conditioned to think all art is great and art only exist in art museums and everything in museums is great.
well if you've been to a museum there is definitely some stuff you just cringe at.
and art exist everywhere not just in museums.

can we agree on that?

 

[emcarthu]

Kind of a side note...
I did take mild offense to the "your narrow point of view is irrelevant" comment. To me it smacked of 'I know more than you, so you're opinion doesn't matter'.
If you say that wasn't the intent, I'll give you benefit of the doubt. You're right, context and tone is sometimes lost in forum posts.
And for the record, I love a good discussion as well

yeah I didn't like that having re-read it. there is some gaping hole in my logic there.

but arguments are just exciting conversations! when people can remain civil (or as civil as possible) I'm all about it.

I'm fine with art major jabs too.

above the belt please. ha!

 

[VonYinzer]

Im sorry for paraphrasing. I shouldve explained myself better as well. Hell man, if we ever met, Id buy ya a beer. I love a good discussion and a bit of brain flexing. I just really take offence to arrogance. I seemingly misunderstood your intent and I apologize for being agressive in responce.

 

[emcarthu]

well it turns out i wasn't very fond of the original quote after re-reading either.
and apologies all round

I'm sure no ill intent would ever be reasoned had we all been face to face.
sometimes the message is just lost in the medium.
I'll take you up on that beer sometime though.

 

[Hoofhearted]

A urinal designed by someone, manufactured by someone else, spotted by someone else, signed and declared art is total bullshit. I would equate it to David Hockney walking through an IKEA store with a pen, signing everything and declaring it to be his new art gallery. You and your friends have been sucked up into that great vacumn of idiocy that declares any old shit signed by the fashionable artist of the day to be art.

Picasso had considerable skill but in his later years it, to me, looks like he found that great vacumn. Threw shit into it and conned them into declaring him a major artist of the 20th century. Speaking for me and me alone art should require a level of skill the same as craftsmen. Picasso's bicycle seat and handlebars? Clever and nothing more. You can look in souvenier shops around the world and see that kind of clever use of mundane items. In real terms the guy that can see a formula one car in some old tin cans should be elevated to the same level as Picasso or Duchamp. But he isn't because he isn't a con artist.