Can't get parts back from powder coating shop

[Rich Ard]

What the fuck am I supposed to do with this pitchfork Joe

 

[JRK5892]

hahaha toss it over by the rope and wait for next time i would imagine hahaha

 

[Rich Ard]

I'll just go find somebody with a chopped subframe and lay into 'em. Or maybe tune my stupid carb

 

[hillsy]

What the fuck am I supposed to do with this pitchfork Joe

Yeah - me too....

I'm just glad I didn't post anything at page 2..... ;D

 

[MJPriceisright]

Here is the price breakdown on the "$600" job. little more than just a wheel. we had $87 in powder we had to custom order to try and color match and i would say about 10 hours in samples... running a huge oven for just a sample mind you. the final color required 3 coats of powder to pull off and masking between each coat... removed frozen bearins in the swing arm and joint, and reinstalled the ones that where able to be used. we even took off $65 for the amount of time that it took to complete this job as an appoligy to the customer. Through the process i even offered less $ solutions for coating options along the way
total for this job was $380... NOT $600... i also can provide recipt for this

wheel
Rim: $45
Hub: $75
Nipple: .75 each (41)
Spokes: $1.25 each (40)
Spacers: $25 each (2)
Bearing install: $20
Lace: $65
True: $65

Swing arm
Swing arm: $65
swing arm joint: $20
swing arm/joint bearing removal/install: $45

examples of some of the samples we shot for the customer

its all in the small differences that add up. my main problem with the situation is that prices just changed without letting me know. im not saying you didn't put in some time and effort, but you did, cause that's your job, and youre supposed to. im not saying your work wasn't quality either, but the colors don't match very well, and you said they would. this is my last post here, I don't really care. I didn't start the thread, just gave my opinions. the wheels took way longer than expected. that's all.. oh and costed more than quoted.


JRK5892
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« Sent to: MJPriceisright on: Feb 01, 2013, 12:08:02 »
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Hello! Sorry i did not get back to your yesterday. here are the prices and the order form link is below. Please let me know if you have any questions at all

$1.25 per spoke
$.75 per nipple
$45 hoop
$40 hub

unlace: $35
Relace: $65
True: $65
bearing removal: $20 per wheel

order form:
http://www.thepowderpro.com/PowderProOrder.pdf

shipping address:

The Powder Pro
11114 Ballard Rd
Woodstock, IL 60098

 

[JRK5892]

yes, I ended up paying nearly 600 dollars for one wheel and a swingarm. what am I gonna do? not pay and not get my parts back? I argued non stop with the guy and finally just said fuck it and got my shit back. total joke.

this was a flat out lie, i can post your recipt for your payment... not even close to $600, i confirmed all colors with you prior to shoot them, and yes the price changed, you had more items that needed to be coated, we had to formuate a custom color for you, and the original was an estimate. Plus it was not one wheel and swing arm... it was many more items than that, all of which still had bearings in them that i had to remove and install (if they where still good) I can not give a 100% accurate quote if we do not even know what powder to use. I stayed in comunacation the entire time, and showed progress and color samples as we shot them... to get on here and say you paid $600 when you paid $380 is a gross exaggeration. in your post you said i quoted around $300, we had over $85 in powder costs ordering samples to try and pull off the color match, you paid $380. Seems very level and fair to me when addtional items where coated that where not disscussed. I am more than happy to cover this with you in private but i can not allow you to post these false stories on here. that is simply not right or fair

 

[MJPriceisright]

all im saying is that you changed the prices without notifying me, its UNPROFESSIONAL. the reason why I didn't pay you 600 dollars is because I told you not to lace my wheel, to save on the cost and the fact I was upset you started changing prices on me. so the 380 plus the lacing fee, and 40 dollars for shipping would have put me right in that upper 5-600 range bud. I don't care how many fucking samples you bought, you said you could deliver, and had tons of gold colors in stock.. but when you need to order samples to find the match, at least tell me your going to raise the prices, don't just say "we're having a hard time getting your color matched" that doesn't tell me shit. im not arguing your quality of work, stuff seems pretty durable. don't really have anything else to say, probably shouldn't have even bothered posting on this thread, im not looking for a dog fight. but don't call me a liar, you changed the costs on me without notification, that's not how business is conducted.

 

[Rich Ard]

I run into the estimate thing with contractors pretty often - a lot of people put a bid out and expect it to be taken as an estimate, without being explicit on that point. It causes a lot of problems that could be solved pretty readily by explaining up front that there may be an overrun, and giving a range - and not going outside those bounds without approval.

It's mandated for most automotive repair - why it isn't done in more situations is beyond me.

I haven't gotten a bid from Joe so I can't speak to his - but if it doesn't say "estimate" out the gate, it isn't one.

 

[JRK5892]

look at your original quote, you also sent the swing arm, full of bearings that needed to be removed, the joint, full of bearings that needed to be removed, 2 end caps, and then 2 wheel spacers that needed to be done in the gold, these would have to be masked 3 times for each one of the coats of powder that was laid on the parts. so no the original estimate was not accurate as additional items where added to them. As i told you, we tried all the powders we had in stock, even working on different base coats and base finishes, nothing worked... so we ordered more powder as you wanted it as close as possible. over the phone you asked me if i could "quote" these items, i did... i also went into detail about how it can only give estimates till we figure just what powder you are going to need as that will affect the overall total, i told you that i could shoot you a quote on what this would run in black so you had an idea. then i sent you the quote below, which would have been accurate for all black. again this does not have your other parts you send included, it does not have the needle bearings from the swing arm or joint removal/install, it does not have the hyme joint removal/install from the swing arm joint as well. you asked for a sales quote of the items, that is what we provided. we did cover this on the phone when you and i spoke. i told you i would quote this in black as that is a good base to go off. you will see none of the items that i quoted and we did in black where changed and that is what you where charged for. Only the gold items had an increase in charges, as with the powder that was decided on, it took 3 coats to pull this off, each time the parts had to be remasked to ensure a propper fitment of the part when in use.

$1.25 per spoke
$.75 per nipple
$45 hoop
$40 hub

unlace: $35
Relace: $65
True: $65
bearing removal: $20 per wheel

 

[MJPriceisright]

well you're definitely saying all the right things here aren't you. you know what, yeah im an idiot. you're right. I never had any problems with the powder pros, they got me the best price and turn around service. loved them. would definitely do business with them again.

 

[smokin87ta]

There is a ton of misinformation and alot of things being said which do not pertain to a customs industry such as powder coating. Rich - your example of using automotive repair as an example couldnt be further off. Let me enlighten you some, your saying a customer brings his car into a shop for repair, mechanic checks it out and gives the quote, now he sure as fuck better be right as the car is in front of his face. A customs industry such as powder coating doesnt have this luxury, based on your assumption we should be able to have a customer call on the phone(from states away) and describe what is wrong with their car and we should have to give an accurate quote? Not a chance.

There is no way and never will be a way to quote 100% accurate jobs without having them in front of you. Every ones parts are different, some have sat outside for years near a coast and some are brand new, with an industry that can double and triple in material costs just based on condition of parts there is and will never be a way to do that. We should not have to eat costs when people send in parts that need more work, and we should not charge people more for sending in new clean parts. I have never once given a quote over phone or internet that wasnt fully explained on all possibilities and im sure Joe is the same way.

On custom color matches everyone on this site needs to realize there are 7500+ powders available and cost anywhere from $5 a lb to $50 a lb and some companies have no minimum, 2lb minimum, 5lb minimum, 50lb minimum ect. So unless you have the part infront of you and comparing it to samples there is no way to know what powder, samples, bases, clears, additives ect will be needed to formulate a powder thus leaving pricing completely open till a match is made and exact powder prices are calculated.

Now to mjprice is right. Looks like the original price quote was for a solid single coat color. Any time we get customers asking for price quotes on parts we use a standard price guide. basically what you are trying to argue is that you were quoted for a single coat color should still have been the same for 3 coats, which obviously requires 3x the powder, 3x taping, 3x oven cures but you want all that for the same as a single one color? That is just absurd.

Also to anyone else that thinks they can be like you and get a quote for coating (example your swing arm) and then send the swing arm in with all the bearing and seals still installed and expect that for free will never happen. Why would a company not charge for an extra hour labor or more removing and installing bearings? No way should you have expected that for free. We tell customers till we are blue in the face that all our quotes are for clean non assembled parts, any extra cleaning that is not normally required or dis assembly/reassembly of parts is extra. I would assume that to be common sense but believe me its not.

 

[smokin87ta]

Not directing it to anyone in a bad way just using your examples as reference for some of the most common issues faced in this industry.

 

[MJPriceisright]

Now to mjprice is right. Looks like the original price quote was for a solid single coat color. Any time we get customers asking for price quotes on parts we use a standard price guide. basically what you are trying to argue is that you were quoted for a single coat color should still have been the same for 3 coats, which obviously requires 3x the powder, 3x taping, 3x oven cures but you want all that for the same as a single one color? That is just absurd.

youre right, its absurd.. if there is more work to be done and more money to be paid.. so be it. BUT let me know! thats all im saying, LET ME KNOW. I don't want to know about how you had to use multi stage this and that, I don't care.. im not a powdercoater, I don't want to be one.. I don't need a pilot to tell me how to fly and how hard it is.. I just want to get there.. but if changes are made to an original order, then specifics in price increase should be notified as we go along.. at the end of the process is when I found out I was to pay hundreds more than original quote? is this not making sense? im over how much it costed, I don't care, its not about the money.. its about the fact I was mislead until the end of the process I was paying one thing, and then all of the sudden, a new number came out of mid air..

Also to anyone else that thinks they can be like you and get a quote for coating (example your swing arm) and then send the swing arm in with all the bearing and seals still installed and expect that for free will never happen. Why would a company not charge for an extra hour labor or more removing and installing bearings? No way should you have expected that for free. We tell customers till we are blue in the face that all our quotes are for clean non assembled parts, any extra cleaning that is not normally required or dis assembly/reassembly of parts is extra. I would assume that to be common sense but believe me its not.

we spoke about the bearings being in the my swinger, and i paid extra for those to be removed, i knew that the whole time. i don't expect anyone to do free work.

 

[JRK5892]

i have no idea where you get that we did not cover this... we did over the phone, we did in private messages where i told you i wanted to try and find a powder we can use as a base vs polishing the metal as that can really get the price up there, we talked about this constantly... as you will recall i was very specific about costs and increases in costs when we find a color match. that is why you asked me to send you a base quote i told you that I would do this as if we where coating all black. you then sent more parts than discussed, and had other work, so of course the overall total is higher... but to say you paid close to $600, that was not true.

 

[MJPriceisright]

i must be high on drugs... ok joe you're right! good thing it only took almost three months to get my wheel done! well done sir.

 

[Rich Ard]

Re: Re: Can't get parts back from powder coating shop

Rich - your example of using automotive repair as an example couldnt be further off.

...

There is no way and never will be a way to quote 100% accurate jobs without having them in front of you.

Mos definitely - this is where being clear that one is looking at an estimate comes into play, and I can see your point all around. Comes down to

1. Communication
2. Honest shop
3. An informed and honest customer

...in that order, methinks

 

[notlob]

if I were to send a part for PC here in the UK with any trace of oil on it I would be charged extra for cleaning of said part, as for bearing still in place then I'd most likely get it back in the next post. So i'm with joe on that.
On the otherhand Mj should of been made aware of any increase in price and what was involved and said price agreed before any work commences whether it was originally an estimate or a quote for work. Its never good for business for customers to turn up and be surprised by the bill but unfortunately it seems to be an ingrained approach in the automotive industry over here and from what I've heard over there as well.
on another note a customer may not be aware of what is involved in a colour match, as far as they are concerned it might just be holding a colour chart up the part, a 30 sec job.
Seems like a breakdown in communication and expectation on both parts.

 

[VonYinzer]

Perhaps this thread should be locked down and the issue handled personally (if there is still an issue to handle). Everyone is being civil for the most part but the more outside opinions interjected, the less likely it is to remain that way.

 

[SONICJK]

Aww,
I wanted to see a battle to the death gladiator style ???
But i guess everyone getting over it could work too 8)

 

[MJPriceisright]

Perhaps this thread should be locked down and the issue handled personally (if there is still an issue to handle). Everyone is being civil for the most part but the more outside opinions interjected, the less likely it is to remain that way.

great idea, i have my parts back and that's all i care about.