CB360's-from build to blog - 2013, MDS (Mo Dumb Shit)

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
I'm selling some parts I had stashed, maybe even get to Barber this year if things work out? ;)
 

ridesolo

You only bear responsibility for your own actions
Howdy PJ. Believe it or not I read through this thread two or three times a year just to refresh my memory and to keep up on "things 360". I just finished my latest peruse and it occurs that you haven't said much about the charging system on these. Is there some repair/replacement/update of the stator that can/should be done to help things along? My hybrid (bastard?) build is finally picking up speed and I figured that if there is something to be done now would be the time to do it.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Personally I haven't had any issues with charging systems
I do fit 'new' full wave regulator/rectifier and use all the alternator outputs separately instead of connecting white/yellow together (I've used CB/CM400t units since they were available from crashed bikes although I also use whatever is available)
Brendon has had some major issues with his but only since it was re-wired (by someone else ;D )
 

ridesolo

You only bear responsibility for your own actions
crazypj said:
Personally I haven't had any issues with charging systems
I do fit 'new' full wave regulator/rectifier and use all the alternator outputs separately instead of connecting white/yellow together (I've used CB/CM400t units since they were available from crashed bikes although I also use whatever is available)
Brendon has had some major issues with his but only since it was re-wired (by someone else ;D )
Thanx for the word, "young fellow", I am considering getting a Sparck Moto wiring harness done for it, so I'll go w/ one of his reg/rec units. Nice to know I shouldn't have to do too much to that part of things. Pretty much everything else is getting adulterated on the little beast, it'll be unexpected to have something "untouched" on it.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Really, the only thing to make sure of is try and keep motor above 2,000 rpm.
Unless there is physical damage to stator, I've never seen one fail (in over 37yrs)
Usually someone has trapped wiring when changing sprocket, stator is fine but isn't actually connected to wiring harness/reg/rect, etc
 

clr.R4tch3t

New Member
Alright PJ.. I have survived all 12 million pages of this. First off, hope your health and aches are getting better. I know the military has done a number on me and I feel like I am 90 years old.. (but only 28 haha). Second, hope your bike turns up soon and isn't gone forever. Third, I would like to pick your brain on the oiling issues of the 360. I will link your pictures where applicable to help the class follow along. I really hope this isn't going to turn into a book. ;D

I have seen the oil flow screen shot you posted up (pic below paragraph). I like the idea of bypassing the internal oil filter (seems a little hokey to me) and the oil pressure regulator (?) built into the clutch cover. I did modify it, as you have (pic below), just in case I don't change it. I like the idea of a spin on, easy to change filter better. Do you think a pressure regulator is necessary to prevent too much oil pressure? Is it even possible to have too much oil pressure in this motor with so many 'lack of oil' issues?



Next, have you completed an external oil line setup on a motor yet? I have seen your picture on the gun drilled cam, the hole drilled and recessed in the cam cover as well as the hole drilled and tapped in the clutch cover.



What I am unsure about is how the hole in the cam cover feeds the holes in the cam? Drilling the center cam bearing for oil in the head is pretty self explanatory. Are these angle holes drilled to line up with the holes drilled in the cam and keep the oil baths full?



And finally, if you are bypassing the internal oil filter and valve, do you think you need the external oil line? You wouldn't risk 'dumping' oil back into crankcase at high rpm because the valve that would do that is obsolete. Also, if the holes in the case that feed the head are drilled bigger (and you used those holes in the head to feed oil to the cam holes you drilled) wouldn't that also take care of the problem?

I need to spend some more time with my motor to try and better understand the oil delivery, I think. I love your 'outside the box' problem solving skills that only come from years and years of just putting hard work in. Hopefully this post just stirs the pot and doesn't mess up the mojo..
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Your right, it isn't possible to build too much oil pressure in this motor.
The problem is the oil transfer piece which restricts flow and 'opens'.
Honda probably didn't intend it to be a pressure relief but thats just how it works and kills top end (maybe they did intend it hoping to sell cylinder heads?)
You can't actually get a more efficient filter than the centrifugal one which is why my scheme doesn't bypass it. I use a small bore oil line to head which will automatically restrict flow when oil is cold (forcing it to flow through 'filter') and feed through line when hot. The stream isn't directed through the cam drilling's on the 'Mk I, leakage is minimised by using a slightly larger thrust washer on cam end so oil would rather go through gun drilled cam. When pressure is OK it feeds just like a normal system. If pressure gets too high and dumps oil back into crankcase, the feed line will put oil into cam bearings and 'should' back-feed forcing oil from the head down as the high pressure is before the 'dump' (it's just a theory, as long as cam bearings and rockers don't get damaged I don't really care how it works ;D )
The Mk II version was going to have a different placement for oil feed pipe and a dedicated end piece with 'O' ring's plus tubular banjo bolt to direct oil deeper into drilled cam, I just haven't gotten around to it since it hasn't been needed
Oh, if your logged in it's only18 pages which is quite short compared to many threads (at least on my computer ;) ) Don't know if wide-screen desktop makes a difference?
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
The production variations in clutch cover depth means you must have some sort of sealed transfer piece, the original spring loaded works fine until oil pressure gets too high (a major fault of the trochoidal pump - it's just TOO GOOD)
I haven't bothered to engineer a replacement but have thought about a positive seal similar to the transfer seal and tube at base of clutch cover (oil runs through idler gear shaft)
CB350 and CB450 DOHC have the same issue when racing and rpm gets up around 10,500~12,000. With stock redline they don't generally seize cam bearings but it's pretty common on race bikes. I have no idea why people assumed pump is too small or doesn't deliver enough oil to top end?
It's really a design flaw by Honda, using thicker oil makes top end destroy itself much quicker than using a 5w synthetic
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
I 'made' an Instructable about trying to remove cylinder from 1968 Suzuki T305.
It's stuck really good due to corrosion between stud hole and cylinder stud.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Super-stuck-two-stroke-cylinder-47yrs/
Take a look, go to orange 'flag' at top right and vote for me, I need more stuff ;D (you can log in with Google, facebook, etc so don't need to join instructables to vote)
It's a fairly common problem on some bikes where studs are exposed but rare when they are completely 'hidden.
Prior to this, the worst I'd ever had to work on was a 5~6 yr old Honda CBX 750.
That has a stainless steel 'wrap' around the cylinder studs which are open to the elements.

I'm in the process of making a couple more 'Instructables', How to PROPERLY Measure Piston and Cylinder (may even get a vid?) and Honing Cylinder Oversize for New Pistons and Rings
You can let me know here if there is any interewst in other stuff.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
3rd day we have no home phone. 'Shitehouse networks' are coming to take a look later ::)
'Hello Fiend'
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Because there has been so much confusion and downright wrong information on internet about how to measure a piston and cylinder, I made another 'Instructable' hoping to get two in the competition. Unfortunately I was too late to enter but I did it anyway.
Here's link
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-correct-way-to-measure-a-cylinder-bore-and-mea/
This is the correct way to measure piston and get piston to cylinder clearance
There are way cheaper alternatives to find piston/cylinder clearance which are 'accurate' to about 0.0015" but really not accurate enough for any type of long life or 'performance' ;D
 

ridesolo

You only bear responsibility for your own actions
Hey PJ, I don't remember reading if you've gotten any horsepower numbers on a 378. That 22cc increase in displacement is a bit less than a 6.5% increase in displacement. I was wondering if you have numbers on the increase in power. Just curious. (I've got a set of GS850 pistons on the way. ;D )
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Nope, too much clutch slip when I had it on dyno.
Numbers were all over the place with around 41bhp max at rear wheel (the claimed 36bhp at crank is a bit of a stretch, Japanese must have used Shetland ponies to measure ;D ;D )
There is a pic of print out somewhere here
Brendon's bike has been clocked at 115mph and 22BHP on one cylinder :eek: (broke piston on the other side)
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
69.5mm bore, gives slight clearance for piston top and reduction in compression isn't anything to worry about
ridesolo said:
Hey PJ, I don't remember reading if you've gotten any horsepower numbers on a 378. That 22cc increase in displacement is a bit less than a 6.5% increase in displacement. I was wondering if you have numbers on the increase in power. Just curious. (I've got a set of GS850 pistons on the way. ;D )
Oh, there should be a picture of dyno read out somewhere in this thread .
I'm pretty sure 'official' Honda numbers were at crank and not rear wheel?
The power gain is actually around 8~10bhp compared to normal rear wheel output (around 28~30bhp) which is out of proportion to the capacity increase
Who says you can't get something for nothing ;D (fuel consumption does increase a little if you beat on it though)
 

Jlama

New Member
Hi pj

was curious if you could give me measurements of copper gaskets for thickness and bore size doing gs850 pistons in my cb360 . i reached out to lani to make a copper gasket for me and thats what he asked for if you could be greatly appreciated.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Get gaskets about 69.50mm bore size.
You can use 69mm same as bore but I've found they need relieving slightly so piston top doesn't touch them when hot and they expand into bore
I may try 69.25 sometime (or maybe not as I have a few gaskets ready for use ;D )
 
Top Bottom