Spray Gun vs Spray Paint - The Debate Thread

[FGKouki]

I hadn't done it,was only using that as an example;tell us more about your own mixing and what works.

It's so simple, just follow the manufacturer's guidelines and use quality mixing cups and strainers. You will use a different hardener for your clear and a different activator/reducer for your base depending on ambient temperature.


Don't kill yourself making a fancy booth just to paint a gas tank, tail section, and some side covers. Base/clear is pretty forgiving and you can sand out 95% of crap that gets in your clear. Put up some barriers outside and a sheet of poly on the ground and you will get nice results and you don't have to worry about lighting and ventilation like you do in a garage. I've painted half a dozen cars this way and many bike tins. Obviously you need to wear a real respirator still (not a disposable mask). A booth is still the way to go, but don't ruin your garage by covering everything with clearcoat when you don't need to.

Personally I don't recommend the eastwood 2k spray can clear. Yeah it's loads better than acrylic enamel but you can pick up a quart + hardener high solids 2k production clear for about the same amount of money. Your clear will be many times thicker with the same amount of coats and you stand a much better chance at not having issues with the basecoat reacting to the clear and the clear shrinking.

 

[grcamna5]

thanks

 

[jpmobius]

As a former designer and manufacturer of industrial paint booths, I can tell you they are largely not critical for the quality of the work. You can easily achieve good results in your own garage, whether you use a gun or a can. Here are some pointers:

1) Moving air is your enemy. The more air that moves past your part, the greater the chance that contamination will be left behind.
2) The largest source of contamination is usually the part being painted ( cars are awful, bare bike parts not so bad.)
3) Second best source of contamination is the painter. Wear a paint suit or be clean and lint free.
4) Clean the floor. That is where the dirt is.

Paint booths are designed around fire safety. People don't get very excited about fire safety or air quality, but they do if you tell them they will get cleaner paint jobs in a fancy booth, so they are sold with this as a selling point, but in the main a cheesy booth is about as clean as a Cadillac - it's all about the prep.

I painted this tank in my filthy garage with absolutely zero ventilation (I have a very good respirator). I cleaned the floor and myself, covered the things I wanted to protect from overs-pray with sheets and plastic, and kept it closed for a couple of hours to let dust in the air settle down. When I went in to paint, I made an effort to not disturb anything. This tank actually looks better in person than in the pic, but but my shop is pretty dreadful. Anyone can do likewise if they understand what is needed.

 

[grcamna5]

That Triumph tank came out sparkly 8)

 

[High On Octane]

Holy Hell! I go on vacation for 2 weeks and this thread blows up!

Powder coat is an excellent base coat for painting on top. Scuffed and painted it makes a better base than a paint primer for durability.

Why would anyone clear coat on top of powder coat? Why wouldn't you just get gloss powder coat?

Well all is not always roses, I did the fenders 2 nights ago and looked them over last night and notice I got some reaction on one of them that wrinkled the yellow, so I now have to re-prep and do over that one, Which sucks but it is 5.99 a can paint, not 35.99. Not sure if the temp wasn't up enough, or I didn't wipe it enough times with the degreaser or what.

This sounds like classic contamination lift. Either there was still some kind of chemical in the old surface that contaminated or you didn't use sealer on the old surface and the new paint ate into the old paint causing it to lift.


Ryan - Generally it is ok to mix and match paint brands as long as it is the same style, i.e acrylic with acrylic, lacquer with lacquer and so on. But for the best possible results, it is always best to use the same manufacturer throughout the paint process. This will also help eliminate any kind of lifting or reactions from one brand to another.

 

[grcamna5]

I couldn't find a retailer for the Spraymax 2K locally.. so I'm giving it to a local body shop after prep and masking for a great deal to clear my parts w/ their urethane clear.

The body shop owner/dude got weird w/ me(his worker was ok w/ it though )and told me no..,so I went to the store and picked up a can of U-Pol #1 Clearcoat in the gold label,the stuff worked terrific. Problem solved

 

[Maritime]

Holy Hell! I go on vacation for 2 weeks and this thread blows up!

Why would anyone clear coat on top of powder coat? Why wouldn't you just get gloss powder coat?



This sounds like classic contamination lift. Either there was still some kind of chemical in the old surface that contaminated or you didn't use sealer on the old surface and the new paint ate into the old paint causing it to lift.

This would have been true if there was old paint, I sanded it to bare plastic, hit it with plastic adhesion promoter, then white, then yellow of the same paint kind and brand within the proper windows of time. My guess is I got something on it somehow even though I was gloved up, washed it yada yada, sanded the spot and hit it after the proper 7 day window and it is fine now. As soon as the replacement tank Decals Arrive I will be ready to do the final 2K clear on all the parts and low and behold Friday is going to be warm enough to do it outside and only around 30-40% humidity so I will be golden as it is a holiday and I am off all day to do the prep, clear, bake and then drink some beers.

 

[High On Octane]

Then my guess would be the adhesion promoter was not completely dry.

 

[Maritime]

Then my guess would be the adhesion promoter was not completely dry.

Could have been but it isn't supposed to dry, you are supposed to hit the part within 10 mins or you have to wipe it off and do it again. I think your thought on contamination was correct, plastic can be a little porous and I bet I missed that spot in the cleaning. I hit 3 other plastic parts and didn't have any issues on those so some grease must have been in the plastic. After the enamel cured I sanded out the wrinkles, hit it again and it covered nice and smooth so I am ok now.


But from now on when I think I got the part clean, I am doing it one more time for good measure LOL

 

[High On Octane]

Adhesion promoter does have a window, but it is better to wait too long than spray too soon. Not sure if that was the actual problem or not, but I've had paint lift because the promoter did not dry enough. Another possibility is that you sprayed the paint too wet in that area. Was it in a corner or something like that where it lifted? If you were able to sand the wrinkles and recoat without it lifting again it likely wasn't contamination. There's a lot of different issues that can cause lifting.

 

[Maritime]

Adhesion promoter does have a window, but it is better to wait too long than spray too soon. Not sure if that was the actual problem or not, but I've had paint lift because the promoter did not dry enough. Another possibility is that you sprayed the paint too wet in that area. Was it in a corner or something like that where it lifted? If you were able to sand the wrinkles and recoat without it lifting again it likely wasn't contamination. There's a lot of different issues that can cause lifting.

flat part on side but it didn't lift so much and act like a crackle paint finish, should have taken a pic but I didn't. I had some of the metal specs do it once to me too and I had to let it cure, sand then re-coat and it was fine, the too much paint at once could be a cause. I was using a timer between coats but may have just hit it a little close or once to many passes on that coat/part.

 

[o1marc]

Holy Hell! I go on vacation for 2 weeks and this thread blows up!

Why would anyone clear coat on top of powder coat? Why wouldn't you just get gloss powder coat?



This sounds like classic contamination lift. Either there was still some kind of chemical in the old surface that contaminated or you didn't use sealer on the old surface and the new paint ate into the old paint causing it to lift.


Ryan - Generally it is ok to mix and match paint brands as long as it is the same style, i.e acrylic with acrylic, lacquer with lacquer and so on. But for the best possible results, it is always best to use the same manufacturer throughout the paint process. This will also help eliminate any kind of lifting or reactions from one brand to another.

You quoted the wrong person. I was merely answering the question asked. While I agree clear powder should be used if using a powder base. But powder base is often used for a more durable base when doing airbrush graphics in paint. At this point the paint may or may not be compatible with the powder so a wet clear can be used.
The more I read your reply the less I understand what you are asking. Are you referring to adding a clear coat to gain a gloss when you could use a gloss color?

 

[PLAZACYCLEJOSH]

I have a question on flat paint finishes, what is the secret to making them not look like a rattle can finish?

I have seen both professional and rattle can ones that come out at the same quality level, are the matte and flat finishes just more difficult?

I think it is a shame to see a bike that someone spent a hand full of money on a paint job sitting next to what I would consider an extremely well done rattle can job for a fraction of the cost.

 

[o1marc]

There are differences in regular flat paint and automotive flat top coats. Still it's in the prep, if your surface is smooth the paint should come out equally as smooth. The equipment used has some bearing on overall finish also. If prepped and finished properly a rattle can job can be just as good as a professionally sprayed job. Not everyone who grabs a rattle can is a painter.

 

[High On Octane]

I have a question on flat paint finishes, what is the secret to making them not look like a rattle can finish?

I have seen both professional and rattle can ones that come out at the same quality level, are the matte and flat finishes just more difficult?

I think it is a shame to see a bike that someone spent a hand full of money on a paint job sitting next to what I would consider an extremely well done rattle can job for a fraction of the cost.

There are many ways to achieve a matte /flat finish. You can do it the cheap lazy way and rattle can it, but will be unsatisfied in 2 years time when the paint is already faded and looking like crap. Otherwise, you can spray a matte single stage enamel or you can use flattening agent in with your mixed clear coat. Either way, you have to make damn sure your painting area is sterile clean, as you can't cut and buff matte/flat surfaces without making them shiny. One other method, that isn't the best thing to do but works, is to clear coat everything, wetsand with 2000, and then use 3000 Trizac to finish it off. The reason I don't recommend this method is because it leaves the surface slightly porous and will be prone to oxidization if left outside. But it does look damn good and you can get a real nice flat surface.

 

[Maritime]

Tank with 2k rattle.

 

[grcamna5]

Nice 8) Maritime

 

[HollywoodMX]

Tank with 2k rattle.

Looks good. Any polishing?

 

[High On Octane]

Again, you CAN get a nice paint job with spray paint. But let me ask those of you who rattle canned your paint jobs this:

How often do you spill gas on your paint and how frantic are you to wipe it up? I personally have no worries about it and have had gas sitting on my paint for several minutes without issue. How long can you leave gas on your rattle can paint before it starts to bubble? How scared are you to spill any at all on it?

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

Seems with the "ratcan" K2 the worries are over for the garage build color shooters?

You leave gas on the tank for that long... why? I mean, I may be a bit anal but I always grab a towel when i pull up to the pump so I don't have to find one if I get a little spillage... don't want it running down the tank onto something else and stinking for the ride.

I would suggest that ratcan or pro you can have a professional paint process if you follow the professional steps in doing so. The advantage of hiring a pro is you can rest assured the process was done right and most likely won't have any issues, the only disadvantage is cost.