CB360 - OEM+ lets see what happens here.

Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
Man oh man. I'm loosing bolts left and right.


Two weeks ago my lower muffler shield fell off. A week after that the exhaust heat shield lost a bolt and just now my muffler bolt came loose and I about lost both my mufflers.


I've been using blue loctite. I guess I'll clean up the threads? Maybe weld on new exhaust nuts (would nylock survive exhaust temps?) The only thing that isn't stock is that the lower muffler is clamped on instead of welded. Would that make a big enough difference?


Anyway... Does anyone have a solution to this type of stuff?
 

farmer92

Coast to Coast
Sonreir said:
Most bolts shouldn't need loctite if they're torqued properly?

It shows that you haven’t had your t500 running yet

But yeah, they shouldn’t come loose if they were torqued properly and have locktite.
Maybe consider some lock washers in there. They usually help a bit in slowing down the speed that they fall out.
 

Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
farmer92 said:
It shows that you haven’t had your t500 running yet
emoji23.png


But yeah, they shouldn’t come loose if they were torqued properly and have locktite.
Maybe consider some lock washers in there. They usually help a bit in slowing down the speed that they fall out.


I appreciate that. I'll try lock washers. I'm afraid I've lost thread to an apish younger version of myself.


All but the muffler mount were factory Philips head. Those cam out when you get them too tight and I'm more of an over tightener than an under tightener, so I'm skeptical that I'm just loosing all of this because of improper torque. If I'm talking out of my recovering academic ass, I apologize ahead of time. I do that and wish I didn't except that sometimes folks call me on it and it helps me understand where my thinking is off.


-cheers.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Cursh said:
On a similar ride today I got these temp readings after running in to grab the temp gun (~5 min?)


Outside temp: 93 degrees (yahoo)
left case (stator) at Honda emblem 138 deg
right case (clutch) at Honda emblem 137 deg
Center of block (around the cam chain tensioner nut) 205 degrees.


Thoughts?


I've got the most minor of oil leaks from the left sprocket cover area. I'll swap out the oil while modifying the oil transfer piece and replace the requisite gaskets/plugs. (unless I have to split the cases to do that. I'm not really interested in that yet.)


I should be using standard 10w40 despite high temps here and no possibility of temps below 45?
Is rotella 5w40 a better way to go? I'm seeing a lot of conflicting info. This bike doesn't see cold.


Thanks for all the help.
Those teps are real low, actually low enough to get condensation build up over time. Most of the water vapour will evaporate but really needs sustained 210+ to keep oil 'dry' as any water will boil off

As for bits falling off, 360 doesn't vibrate that bad, unless something isn't right? How are chain and sprockets? They are about the only things that can cause 'bad' vibrations, the rest are relatively high frequency, either bolts were not tight enough, were wrong grade and broke or were in a repeat heat/cool cycle that caused them to loosen. Accoerding to NASA, lock washers are likely to cause more problems than they cure, just use blue loctite with dry threads (it won't work on anything getting hot though)
 

Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
crazypj said:
As for bits falling off, 360 doesn't vibrate that bad, unless something isn't right? How are chain and sprockets? They are about the only things that can cause 'bad' vibrations, the rest are relatively high frequency, either bolts were not tight enough, were wrong grade and broke or were in a repeat heat/cool cycle that caused them to loosen. Accoerding to NASA, lock washers are likely to cause more problems than they cure, just use blue loctite with dry threads (it won't work on anything getting hot though)


Anything I’m looking for sprockets/chain to be bad? I assume if they are out of round/flat we’ve got a Problem. I just replaced the rear tire tube and possibly over tightened the chain (it was pretty loose before.) I’ll double check spec in the shop manual and fix it if I over did it. I’m grabbing a new chain as well. I’ll gather some bolts


I’m guessing I mixed in some low grade bolts too. I’ll see what happens when I replace them with graded bolts instead of bolts from the bits and bolts bin.
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
Chain too tight is worse than chain too loose in almost all cases. Stock adjustment only works with stock length shocks, generally it's best to have everything 'in line' (center of axle, swing arm pivot, sprocket center) and set around 10mm ~ 3/8" at tightest point
Check sprockets for wear, hooking, broken teeth, etc, you will be wasting money fitting a new chain to worn sprockets.It's probably a good idea to check tyre balance as well while your doing stuff, rear wheel out of balance is way more important than people realise
 

Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
crazypj said:
It's probably a good idea to check tyre balance as well while your doing stuff, rear wheel out of balance is way more important than people realise


Boom. That makes the most sense to me. I didn't remount the tire in the same way it was originally mounted and I didn't balance after replacing the tube. I'll double check the chain, replace my missing bolts with good bolts and balance the tires.


If I keep loosing bolts I'll sure as shit let everyone know (I know you'll all be on the edge of your seats) I just realized my OEM foot peg rattled apart on the exhaust side too (looks like it was a cotter pinned rod that fell out, so that's kinda alarming.)
 

whynot

~~~If it ain't raining, I'm riding~~{iii}?~~prost~
Wait till the pin falls out of your brake actuating rod and you go to put on the brakes and have no pedal.

Ask me how I know this. And that booger is a severe pita to reinstall.
 

jpmobius

where does this go?
DTT BOTM WINNER
Sonreir said:
Most bolts shouldn't need loctite if they're torqued properly?
Respectfully, in practice this is true, BUT should only apply to reasonably high quality bolts. Low quality (read "soft") bolts yield (permanently deform) so easily that the "spring" tension that keeps many bolts from becoming loose enough in service to turn (like a connecting rod bolt) is not all that practical to count on. As a rule, I find blue Loctite very effective even on (what balance?) buzzy 4" diameter handlebar grip 2-strokes and big singles. Fasteners that unscrew themselves even with threadlocker almost invariable have some other mechanical issue that keeps the assembly from, well assembling correctly. When parts don't meet up properly (flat and parallel joining faces for instance), thin surfaces out of flat, or slots instead of holes for bolts with missing, too thin, incorrect or deformed washers for example, the clamping effect of the fastener varies so much under vibration it is simply too loose too often. There are often many such situations on old bikes, often a result of uncorrected local damage and/or incorrect replacement fasteners. Getting correct, quality fasteners complete with appropriate washers, spacers, etc is far from as trivial as it often seems. It absolutely takes a bit of time and patience when assembling anything "custom" (even if "custom" is just a slight variation on what used to be there) to make sure every connection has a little engineering thought put into it, but it beats having parts fall off on the road! Make sure the parts fit really well together and don't have to be "sprung" into place until you can get a bolt in there, or worse, jack the assembly together by catching one thread with the nut and cranking it together with tools. Most assemblies like a washer under the head of the bolt and another under the nut if applicable. Just any old washer generally won't do, it needs to have close enough tolerances to properly support the fasteners. I do use split lock washers a lot on old bikes - they came that way - but don't tell anyone!
Take a more discerning look at your troublesome connections and you likely will find trouble that needs fixing. Act accordingly and probably you will find most of your problems go away. It isn't a 100% solution though, sometimes you find connections that need some alterations to work reliably.
 

teazer

Over 1,000 Posts
DTT BOTM WINNER
Vibration issues sound just like a triumph twin I used to ride. Fast and fun - but bits just fell off too often. Nothing important though. Just exhausts and footpegs and gear levers etc. :-\
 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
360 has a 180 crank so has a lot of high rpm 'buzz' and of course the 'rocking couple' gets annoying but vibration level isn't anything like even a T(or GT ;) )500 Suzuki. Since I found out more about spring washers, I've pretty much stopped using them, even if they were OEM fitted. I never liked them anyway as they tend to damage things.
 

Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
Yeah. Lost another heat shield. I’m guessing it was me forcing a cl350 shield onto my 360 pipes and not using any washers it pretty much just fit though.


I’ve got new carbon muffler gaskets and will go over all my bolts to be sure I haven’t substituted in anything soft. (PS CB360 gaskets work on CL360 pipes. Im sure someone else already figure that out. No damage in duplicating that info on the forums though.)


Off topic, am I insane for liking these dinky rectangular 80s blinkers over the aluminum mini ones I’d been using?
 

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Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
I meant to take apart the 360 to do the oil pickup mod, install some OEM bits I haven't gotten around to and replace all of the lost bolts and things... but I procrastinated and built a shade lean-to instead. This makes it easier to leave the bikes outside instead of crowding them all into the garage, which is nice. Also the next step is tearing the engine out of that ascot and seeing what makes it so sad inside, so this is a little bit of making room for a standing engine in the very small workshop (by putting a Moto outside)


All praise be to procrastination.
 

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Cursh

Loves Stock Airboxes
lol. At least MiniatureNinja has a very entertaining build thread to comb through. That for sure wasn't the worst part of my Sunday morning.
 

MiniatureNinja

Coast to Coast
DTT BOTM WINNER
Cursh said:
lol. At least MiniatureNinja has a very entertaining build thread to comb through. That for sure wasn't the worst part of my Sunday morning.

im glad someone got something out of it! should have an update this weekend too!
 

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