The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?

[xulf13]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

These

http://m.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CB-450-CB450-FORGED-RACING-PISTON-BIG-BORE-74MM-/261475767673?nav=SEARCH

Yeah I saw those also and almost went that route. I heard mixed reviews about boring the stock sleeves that much. But there is a guy with a Cb500T that used those pistons with success and even has a video of it running 6 months or so after the modifications. He did a lot of research and made a few other modifications and pretty much has a 550 twin now.

I wanted a daily with a little more pep,
I didn't want to compromise reliability for long trips, which is what I build my bike for. But maybe that bike is good even for long trips..?

Check out chinonthetank.com for his build. Some pretty good stuff.

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Yeah I saw those also and almost went that route. I heard mixed reviews about boring the stock sleeves that much. But there is a guy with a Cb500T that used those pistons with success and even has a video of it running 6 months or so after the modifications. He did a lot of research and made a few other modifications and pretty much has a 550 twin now.

I wanted a daily with a little more pep,
I didn't want to compromise reliability for long trips, which is what I build my bike for. But maybe that bike is good even for long trips..?

Check out chinonthetank.com for his build. Some pretty good stuff.

Yeah, thought of that as well, still may do the wiseco ones it's really all up in the air. The big 'to do' is going g to be the injection, don't need to really go nuts on the bore. I'm very curious what performance benefits the efi will bring.

 

[xulf13]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

I'm curious about the EFI performance as well, but mostly just to see it get done. That alone would be cool IMO. I went the mikuni route and with help of a fellow DTTer got mine running great.

I also did a bit porting on the head

If you do too much at once you won't know what did the most benefit or what wasn't a big plus. So it will be hard to judge unless you know how that bike ran prior or have another bike like it to compare it to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sonreir]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Following along on this one. Electronic Fuel Injection is epic.

 

[Flugtechnik]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Yes, xulf13 and I have been sharing our mistakes so the other doesn't repeat them. I'm actually about to start rebuilding my motor again as soon as I get my tax refund. Mine is burning oil and popping out of second gear. Clutch is slipping too. I only rebuilt the top end so time to dig into the rest.

I agree that you have to have an end goal in mind to make a sound build plan. Are you going to be racing this? Just want to hot rod it for fun? Want to daily it? Long trips?

My bike has morphed into a scrambler so I am just looking to make the engine run better, to make it more reliable and more robust. I'm not looking for more power. That head work sounds like the ticket, and will probably do the oiling mod.

In my opinion, if you get rid of the torsion bars, you have lost the uniqueness of the engine. I understand why it is done.

I am really interested in the FI system you are going to try. Did you figure out what ignition you are going to use?

 

[Flugtechnik]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Make sure you check your cam chain rollers carefully. I found one of mine had sheared the head off of the roller axle pin. Luckily there wasn't enough room in the head for the pin to come all the way out or my engine would have turned into a grenade.

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

I'm curious about the EFI performance as well, but mostly just to see it get done. That alone would be cool IMO. I went the mikuni route and with help of a fellow DTTer got mine running great.

I also did a bit porting on the head

If you do too much at once you won't know what did the most benefit or what wasn't a big plus. So it will be hard to judge unless you know how that bike ran prior or have another bike like it to compare it to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats easy, it didn't lol, it wasn't a complete bike. Honestly, I'm so fucking tired of carbs. I know a lot of you on here like them, but I grew up in the efi generation. They are just such a pain in the ass to tune perfect, and they will never do as well as an efi map. Temperature and pressure changes alone throw them off. Up til 2 years ago when I started my 175, all I worked one were fuel injected cars. Tuning was always the easiest thing in the world, and really idiot proof. Maybe that's what I should call this bike, the idiot proof 450 lol.

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Following along on this one. Electronic Fuel Injection is epic.

Glad to hear it Matt, going to need a second set of eyes for the wiring. Also figuring out a sensor bypass or 2, and making the digital ignition talk to the ecu is gonna be fun!

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Yes, xulf13 and I have been sharing our mistakes so the other doesn't repeat them. I'm actually about to start rebuilding my motor again as soon as I get my tax refund. Mine is burning oil and popping out of second gear. Clutch is slipping too. I only rebuilt the top end so time to dig into the rest.

I agree that you have to have an end goal in mind to make a sound build plan. Are you going to be racing this? Just want to hot rod it for fun? Want to daily it? Long trips?

My bike has morphed into a scrambler so I am just looking to make the engine run better, to make it more reliable and more robust. I'm not looking for more power. That head work sounds like the ticket, and will probably do the oiling mod.

In my opinion, if you get rid of the torsion bars, you have lost the uniqueness of the engine. I understand why it is done.

I am really interested in the FI system you are going to try. Did you figure out what ignition you are going to use?

I have a saying working on anything old. The old parts might work, but new parts will work. I generally replace everything possible. Less chance for mechanical error. Doesn't fix human error though ???

If I told you my plans for the bike you'll laugh. Ive been bouncing between building something for me to just ride the hell out of, or go all the way and try to get it into the handbuilt show. I really want to shoot for the stars, but I don't know if I will have the cash to pull it off. Bikes that make a statement ain't cheap to build.

 

[Finnigan]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Cool idea

 

[canyoncarver]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Cool stuff. Watching to learn something.

 

[Sonreir]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

When I was tinkering with this idea with my 360, one of the major hurdles was the electricity requirements of an EFI system versus how much power the alternator is capable of producing. The Honda twins are already a bit anemic in this area, and adding an EFI setup is probably not going to work without some other changes.

Some of you may recall my stacked alternator idea (pics attached), but lately I've been leaning more toward using an external car alternator attached to the final drive. Using a large battery on the bike will allow everything to keep running at idle, and once you get back up to speed, the car alternator kicks in and charges things back up.

Something like this, perhaps?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BP0W9A

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

When I was tinkering with this idea with my 360, one of the major hurdles was the electricity requirements of an EFI system versus how much power the alternator is capable of producing. The Honda twins are already a bit anemic in this area, and adding an EFI setup is probably not going to work without some other changes.

Some of you may recall my stacked alternator idea (pics attached), but lately I've been leaning more toward using an external car alternator attached to the final drive. Using a large battery on the bike will allow everything to keep running at idle, and once you get back up to speed, the car alternator kicks in and charges things back up.

Something like this, perhaps?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BP0W9A

I like that idea of stacked units. What made you not continue with it?

I figured the use of a 16ah lithium ion battery would help, even if it runs at a loss it'll take a while to go under 12v. Then just pop it back in the charger.

 

[Sonreir]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

I like that idea of stacked units. What made you not continue with it?

I figured the use of a 16ah lithium ion battery would help, even if it runs at a loss it'll take a while to go under 12v. Then just pop it back in the charger.

I was worried about the extra weight coming off the crank. Additional wear and tear as well as the performance implications of the extra mass were both considerations. It would also be the first contact point in a high lean to the left.

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

I was worried about the extra weight coming off the crank. Additional wear and tear as well as the performance implications of the extra mass were both considerations. It would also be the first contact point in a high lean to the left.

The weight on the crank makes sense. I'm thinking of putting a call into ricks, perhaps they can lead me towards the direction of a different stator and rotor that I can make fit. I have a hard time believing there isn't a different stator out there that will work. Or, possibly having the factory stator modified.

 

[Sonreir]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Three phase conversion is on my todo list, one of these years.

I've tinkered with it on and off, but haven't found anything off the shelf that will work.

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Three phase conversion is on my todo list, one of these years.

I've tinkered with it on and off, but haven't found anything off the shelf that will work.

want to make a prototype for a 450? lol

 

[Sonreir]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Well... the nice thing is if we can nail it for a 450, we get most of the other Honda twins for free.

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Well... the nice thing is if we can nail it for a 450, we get most of the other Honda twins for free.

I do have a 2014 cb500x wire harness that is set up for a modern stator and R/R. just sayin :

 

[jag767]

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

And this just came in the mail. I havent measured but i think this will fit easy.