The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7402/74024main.htm

Someone care to translate?

Then there's this in english

http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7402/74029main.htm

Anyone know anything about it?

It's an interesting idea to have a digital ignition in the stator, might serve as a better setup in lieu of a crank position sensor?

My original plan was to get the pamco ignition, and hook it up to the ecu without the "little blue box" and let the computer do the work.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-450D.html

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=cb450&PN=STK%2d550%2ehtml#SID=704?aSTK_2d550

Found this too. I'm guessing the power output is less though.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

The first one might do the trick, the PowerDynamo setup.
The second one is a no - go.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

I have a power dynamo ignition on my smoker. The digital ignition is in the coil. It is a very stout system and I like it. The output is good.
After reading your thread last night I was interested in the FI thing so I Google'd fuel injected RD350. I hit a thread on twostrokeworld where a guy put a FI on a Suzuki GT250. At first he had issues feeding the ecu from the power dynamo but got it worked out somehow. I'll have to go and search for the thread again and post it up.

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Sonreir said:
The first one might do the trick, the PowerDynamo setup.
The second one is a no - go.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that was the best bet too. Going to email them.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

clem said:
I have a power dynamo ignition on my smoker. The digital ignition is in the coil. It is a very stout system and I like it. The output is good.
After reading your thread last night I was interested in the FI thing so I Google'd fuel injected RD350. I hit a thread on twostrokeworld where a guy put a FI on a Suzuki GT250. At first he had issues feeding the ecu from the power dynamo but got it worked out somehow. I'll have to go and search for the thread again and post it up.

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Click to expand...

Yes, please let me know!
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=13694.0
There you go. It's a pretty good read even though you have a 4 banger.

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Got some info from power dynamo. They have 2 models, 180 watts no ignition, 150 Watts with an ignition, and the ignition doesn't feed into the 150 watts.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Sonreir said:
Well... the nice thing is if we can nail it for a 450, we get most of the other Honda twins for free. :)
Click to expand...

What about an inverter generator just enough to run the ecu and charge a separate battery
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Also modern dirtbikes (450's) run efi... what do they use for power
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
Also modern dirtbikes (450's) run efi... what do they use for power
Click to expand...

Stronger alternators than what the CB450 originally came with.

CB450 is good for about 110W-130W while the new XR650L is about 190W.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Sonreir said:
Stronger alternators than what the CB450 originally came with.

CB450 is good for about 110W-130W while the new XR650L is about 190W.
Click to expand...

So a welder and a machinist could retrofit the mechanics for the crank then the electronics are plug and play no?

All the players are here: but a tall order for $

http://www.hondarestoration.com/for_sale_motoqs.asp?md=Electrical%20Components&p=Motorcycle%20Parts&c=179853&k=CRF450&pn=3
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
So a welder and a machinist could retrofit the mechanics for the crank then the electronics are plug and play no?
Click to expand...

More or less, yup. :)

Adapting an EFI setup from one bike to another isn't super simple, though. It's like pulling the carbs from one bike and putting them on another and expecting it to work out of the box. Depending on the system, things can be tweaked, however.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

That said, I'd be willing to bet than with a good O2 sensor, bikes with similar displacement and redlines would work once they were warmed up. They might run a little rough on idle, though.

EFI electronics usually only kick in after the engine is warm. They're running from pre-programmed values until that point. Running from sensors is called "closed loop operation" and running from pre-programmed maps is called "open loop operation". In reality, motorcycles tend to run a bit more in open loop (even when warmed up) since running variables (load, rpms, etc) change a lot more quickly than they do in cars.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Sonreir said:
That said, I'd be willing to bet than with a good O2 sensor, bikes with similar displacement and redlines would work once they were warmed up. They might run a little rough on idle, though.

EFI electronics usually only kick in after the engine is warm. They're running from pre-programmed values until that point. Running from sensors is called "closed loop operation" and running from pre-programmed maps is called "open loop operation". In reality, motorcycles tend to run a bit more in open loop (even when warmed up) since running variables (load, rpms, etc) change a lot more quickly than they do in cars.
Click to expand...

Hey! Now we're talking about things I know! Ideally, with the right data logging it would be possible to find exactly where to tweak the maps to keep the ratio in the sweet spot. Now if I stick with the electronics from the cb500x, I can plug in the Power commander, and their auto tune setup that comes with its own 02 sensor. From what I understand it takes the guess work out of tuning. As far and charging, I'm leaning towards the 180 watt setup, and using the pamco ignition. I'm not sure what the power needed for the components is, but I'm thinking this is my best shot. I'm guessing I am in the ballpark.

After a call with Rick yesterday (who thinks I'm nuts to be fuel injecting a 450 btw) apparently the greatest limiting factor in the twins is the magnets in the rotors. He said he could make a 3 phase setup, but it'd be useless without making a new rotor. He also looked at the power dynamo units and felt that should give a nice bump in charging.

I also have some questions in to Ecotrons and microsquirt, figured a backup is a nice idea.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

I can tell you that I have run my DS7 with the power dynamo and no battery and the lights and blinkers all worked fine. For me the simplicity of the install, setting timing and no worries is worth the money over some other options available. Zeel makes a programming box to set curves on the PD ignition also.
There was another thread on 2strokeworld where a guy purchased the ecotrons setup but I don't think that he followed through with all of the posts to a completed product. This is definitely interesting though.

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Alright got pricing. 290 euros for the 180 watt no ignition, 450 euros for the 150 watts with ignition. I think I am going to do the 180 watt and the pamco ignition, just want to make sure I can get the pamco to work in my setup. Also, I put the throttle bodies up to the head to see what kind of manifold I'm going to need to make them fit. This is going to be a bitch, need someone who is aces with aluminum tube to weld something up for me. I think I can make the pieces just fine, will buy some aluminum tube, and flat material and will cut all the pieces, but I can't weld aluminum for shit ::)
 
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